Inequalities, Unbalances, etc

[Baalzamon]

I'd like to thank FI for showing us just how out of whack this BETA is becoming.

Six ships taking down a level 73 planet.

Let me repeat that for emphasis...... six ships, taking down a 70+ planet.

Perhaps I'm too wedded to the way things used to be, but anyone who has played this game in a big alliance in the last five years can't see this as a good thing.

My understanding was that Planets were supposed to be made more difficult to take rather than easier, the FI OP on 3420 illustrates that this is not the case. No planetary primer is available and so we have no way to test what does and doesn't work, but regardless of that, six ships taking a 70+, sorry, there's just something inherently wrong with that. There are lots of exciting new features in the game that need to be balanced somehow, someway and currently as the game stands, there's no real way to test them based on how the game is working now. Formulas need to be reset and retested because the rest of us that aren't sitting at 200k or above in exp might as well not bother because all we are is cannon fodder at this point in the game.

so far we have discovered...... forces don't work unless you have high experience, planetary defenses still need to be tweaked, namely if the shooties know where the defenses are coming from, that is a decided disadvantage for the defenders. Upgrades and cash, while readily available, are pretty much being limited by folks for reasons unknown as if this game mattered instead of allowing people to test out the game and determine what is working and what isn't. No one is keeping track of the kills here, so are why are we seeing 4 vs 1 hunting parties sitting at all of the fat ports? what knowledge is being gleaned from this? Port raids are more lethal than planet defenses? Why isn't anyone sharing information out there?

Why post this here? I dunno, I see so few comments and ideas being offered up in the bugs and suggestions threads that I wonder if everyone forgot that this is BETA testing for SMR and not another round where we're all trying to "win". I can only comment on the things I see as a player, I KNOW that I can't see it all, nor do I have the gift of perception when it comes from the aspect of a trader or a hunter, so all I can do is point out what I see, I'm sure that there are others who have also noticed issues.

I understand that people also just want to play, but please, can we stop with the guys over 300k killing people fresh out of newbs who are exploring this game for the first time? If that means more NPC's to battle, then lets dig 'em up. Maybe route those guys already this round with 30+ kills into some game where they can all go hunt each other. So can we all start working towards making the GAME better please? I know the coders are out there working, but I'm sure that everything in the bug/suggestion/BETA threads only covers a portion of what's been found so far. Ideas to tweak the changes into a reality of some sort and keeping the game a challenge are more than welcomed by the BETA testers I assume, and if people dissagree on an idea on how to resolve an issue, lets handle it with civility. I think what I want is the same thing all of you want, a good game to play, that's a challenge to play, that's hard to master and an opportunity to enjoy it with friends.

end of soapbox mode

So here's what I want. Any and all massive unbalances you see, (ie 6 people knocking out a level 70+ planet) post here. I don't want a discussion, I want a list.

For example,

Problem type: Unbalance
Actual Problem: 6 people able to take out a level 70+ planet
Proposed solution: Make turrets hit harder, more drones fire, lower the affect regular weapons have compared to raid weapons (perhaps half the damage normal weapons do vs planets?)

Another..

Problem type: Non-sensible
Actual Problem: People who have a max withdraw imposed on the AA can still take out unlimited from planetary banks
Proposed solution: Make withdraw caps count towards planet banks as well.

[Page]

Problem type: Non-sensible
Actual Problem: People who have a max withdraw imposed on the AA can still take out unlimited from planetary banks
Proposed solution: Make withdraw caps count towards planet banks as well.

I have already fixed this, so bank/planet withdrawals are based on both.



Problem type: Unbalance
Actual Problem: Generators: 100 shields, shield capacitors: 10, whereas Hangars = 20 drones and Landing Bays = 20 drones
Proposed solution: Up shield capacitors to 100 shields.

[Harry Krishna]

I was testing too. I was discovering some of the things a lvl 100 player can do.
Thing i had most fun with was mine clearing. average 50 stack dealt less than 100. most i got hit for was 550 froma 125 stack on a dead end.

Problem: As posted elsewhere, the current formula for force stacks is jacked up. The effects of a full stack of forces should be the great equalizer, not another tool for hunter/high level player dominance.

Proposed solution: see piratedan's posts on the subject. well thought out and balanced towards all players. makes damned good sense too!

[Infinity]

Problem: As posted elsewhere, the current formula for force stacks is jacked up. The effects of a full stack of forces should be the great equalizer, not another tool for hunter/high level player dominance.

Proposed solution: see piratedan's posts on the subject. well thought out and balanced towards all players. makes damned good sense too!

Yes, yes, and yes and yes.

[piratedan]

just so you guys know what is being discussed, I cadged this from the CD/Forces thread that Page started in the game development suggestions page. Everyone may not have access to it, so I pulled my post and will drop it here so you have an idea on what I proposed:

the more I think on this, the more I believe that the CD's engagement should be tied to the mines effectiveness at least as far as an initial trigger is concerned. For example the whole concept of a combat drone is one of automated attack. That attack is triggered when weapons discharge in sector. If someone jumps into a sector and they have weapons, those automatically engage mines upon entrance to the sector, therefore, the CD's should trigger post the defender's shot/taking of mine damage. The defender's exp comes into play on how well they defend against this additional attack. The CD's should/could have at minimum a 50/50 chance of fully engageing the defender simply because of the manueverability impact of the mines/weapons creating a more or less "stationary" target.

Or you could tie it into the number of guns that engaged the mines, 1 gun =15% of cd's in affected stack, 2 guns 30%, 3 guns 40%, 4 guns 50%, 5 guns 50%, 6 and up, each by an additional 10%. So if you are flying a ship with 10 guns you pull the full attention of the stack you activated. If you have more than 10, then you get the "probablity" of additional CD stacks engaging you. So if you jump into a minefield bristling with weapons you can expect a full attack from the cd's in that stack, your ability to defend is then factored in regards to how many drones you eliminate. Lets face it, if you are in a ride that has that much firepower, this will most likely still not cripple you, but the damage would at least be representative of the actual firepower in the stack plus it doesn't mean that you would always take full damage since your weapons would be available to discharge and eliminate a portion of the threat.

I believe that the only caveat that should exist would be if someone jumps into a sector without weapons, meaning that they only take mine damage, but that damage is based on movement alone, not on a weapons discharge. Maybe on an additional note, this should make the drone scrambler a standard feature on Nijarin ships to make that race more attractive.

[Infinity]

Problem: easy mine clearing

Solution suggestion based on this discussion http://smrcnn.smrealms.de/viewtopic.php ... 470#p98449


DmgToForces = MaxDmg * (1 - PastRepairs / 1100);

PercentToHit = (100 - (DefenderLevel / 2 + rand(1,7) * rand(1,7))) / NumberOfExits + round(PastRepairs / 50);

This will make clearing effective and not too dangerous till 800 past repairs but only if clearer has really heavy armor setup. Also, every 50 repair points will add 1% to number of mines hitting, so with 800 repaired SC ship will be hit with additional 16% of mines. Does anyone think this is too low or too high?

As for ChanceToHit and sectors CDs attack formula, I wanted to remove the ForceOwnerLvl and somehow take in account ship's MR, but I need to think about it slowly.

[JettJackson]

problem: force deaths less exp loss than normal deaths. people purposely dying to forces knowing its a less exp loss

solution: make force deaths the same ratio of exp loss at previously was

[Target]

Problem type: Unbalance
Actual Problem: 6 people able to take out a level 70+ planet
Proposed solution: Make turrets hit harder, more drones fire, lower the affect regular weapons have compared to raid weapons (perhaps half the damage normal weapons do vs planets?)

I was talking about this with JJ a few days ago.

I posed the question about if he felt a planet with 100 generators, 100 hangers, and 10 turrets should kill 1 person per shot if 10 people were attacking it. This is the question we should be asking. If the answer is yes (which was his answer) then thats the direction we need to move in.

However, as it is currently, a lander can have 200 generators, 200 hangers, and 20 turrets. How many should that be killing a round?

With research planets, there is research you can do that makes turrets do more damage, attackers do less damage, etc. We need to find some middle of the road where maybe if you don't do any research, maybe a regular 100/100/10 planet would only kill someone ever 3 shots when 10 attack it.

If the solution is making drones or turrets do more damage, then we need to reevaluate the damage a lander can do with its 200/200/20 buildings, as well as all of the other types of planets that allow reserve and secondary buildings.

[Swagman]

Until somebody states exactly what can be built, what all the researches do, what are the max amounts of all structures on different types of planet, this will be a difficult one to answer... as we may agree something, that then a new bit of research, makes better or causes more damage...

If somebody (who actually knows how planets are supposed to work) could make a hierachical building structure tree, that shows what builds are required to progress to the next building in the chain on each different planet type, and the potential maximums of each different planet type and how in % terms or actual terms they help and support other planet types.

Then we may be able to have a shot at deciding these things, once we all know how the heck they all work individually and work together

[Target]

Until somebody states exactly what can be built, what all the researches do, what are the max amounts of all structures on different types of planet, this will be a difficult one to answer... as we may agree something, that then a new bit of research, makes better or causes more damage...

If somebody (who actually knows how planets are supposed to work) could make a hierachical building structure tree, that shows what builds are required to progress to the next building in the chain on each different planet type, and the potential maximums of each different planet type and how in % terms or actual terms they help and support other planet types.

Then we may be able to have a shot at deciding these things, once we all know how the heck they all work individually and work together

This will help a bit, but not completely.

http://azool.us/baalz/planets.htm