SMR-CNN

Freon22 wrote:
This is why I don't like this idea. It gives to much of an advantage to the hunter just because he has some money to pay..

And here i thought people were saying how the game was so overly balanced in the favor of traders.

silverx2 wrote:And here i thought people were saying how the game was so overly balanced in the favor of traders.

Yeah, but those are just the smart ones and they're a small minority.

silverx2 wrote:

Freon22 wrote:
This is why I don't like this idea. It gives to much of an advantage to the hunter just because he has some money to pay..

And here i thought people were saying how the game was so overly balanced in the favor of traders.

No the exact opposite is true here.

silverx2 wrote:And here i thought people were saying how the game was so overly balanced in the favor of traders.

Who are the ones saying this? Could they be hunters that wants some of the old days back when they got kills everyday that they played. We just don't have that amount of traders anymore. So make it so its easyer to kill the ones that are left.

SMR is all about math, so how many traders do you think it takes to support 1 hunter? I think a fair number would be 3 traders per hunter.

Edit: Forgot to add in the area as in map size. The current map is sized for how many players?

Now maybe it's just me, but am I not right in saying that the most fun part for hunters and traders is when they clash? I know I always had the most fun when getting shot at whilst trading, although of course I preferred it if I got away (not getting shot at however was just dull and monotonous). And as a hunter the best part was shooting people, and it was better if I killed them.
However the best part for both was when there was a proper chase where it was really close (regardless of what way it went).

So assuming that everyone agrees with this thought, how about coming up with ideas that increase the chance of this happening (invisible scouts would most likely work), and if it needs to be balanced the other way (personally I think it's incredibly easy to survive as a trader with just a bit of speed and not making stupid mistakes) then come up with a way that instead increases survivability/escapability rather than stopping the hunt in the first place.

Page wrote:So assuming that everyone agrees with this thought, how about coming up with ideas that increase the chance of this happening (invisible scouts would most likely work), and if it needs to be balanced the other way (personally I think it's incredibly easy to survive as a trader with just a bit of speed and not making stupid mistakes) then come up with a way that instead increases survivability/escapability rather than stopping the hunt in the first place.

First off I think your comment "(personally I think it's incredibly easy to survive as a trader with just a bit of speed and not making stupid mistakes)" is wrong. You must not trade much in a IST, I would agree with you some in a PSF. But with the maps that have been being used you have to go to a neutral galaxy to trade, you can't do that trading in a PSF. Also its all about page loads, that is when the hunter attacks. He waits for you to start the trade, he knows it will take two page loads and maybe four page loads if he set mines in your escape route. So you tell me if I am in a IST how many times can the hunter fire on my two page loads? On top of that in another thread there is talk about making the trading ships weaker.

One of the things that you tell new player is "do not trade on a route that a hunter has scouts on". So the invisible scouts means that all traders will be making a stupid mistake without ever knowing it.

This is easy to prove, you have already coded the unknown scouts. It would not be much of a change to make them invisible. Run one game with invisible scout and see how it goes. I would make one request, since the racial galaxies are going to be full of these invisible scout anyway I would want a warp to the CA in each racial galaxy so that traders can use these invisible scouts also.

Okay, I am going to respond one more time, because I'm really done with repeating my arguments.

Freon22 wrote:First off I think your comment "(personally I think it's incredibly easy to survive as a trader with just a bit of speed and not making stupid mistakes)" is wrong. You must not trade much in a IST, I would agree with you some in a PSF.

I have been trading exclusively in an IST for the past 15 years because it's more flexible and I got killed while trading once. I completely agree with Page that it is incredibly easy to stay alive while trading and I will explain why.

Freon22 wrote:But with the maps that have been being used you have to go to a neutral galaxy to trade, you can't do that trading in a PSF.

if you can't survive in the racials in a PSF, then you're doing something wrong. There are plenty of routes there. Maybe they are not the top ones, but if you can choose between staying alive in the racials and dying in the neutrals, then that choice isn't difficult, is it?

Freon22 wrote:Also its all about page loads, that is when the hunter attacks. He waits for you to start the trade, he knows it will take two page loads and maybe four page loads if he set mines in your escape route. So you tell me if I am in a IST how many times can the hunter fire on my two page loads?

It's all about page loads for the trader too. Check the news before you trade to see if anyone is hunting. If you are sitting outside the sector you will trade in, then check cpl. If there is no hunter on cpl, then you know it will take him/her at least two to three sectors of moving, probably more. Then he or she will hit the mine you dropped in the sector and ping the scout you also dropped in sector, warning you. You need to sell goods and buy goods. Agreeing on a price doesn't take a mouse click, just use return, but it does take a page load. So, say, 4 page loads for a trader and at least 5 for the hunter (2 for moving, 1 for hitting a mine, 2 for firing) and that is only when the hunter has a lurking sector very close (but at least 2 sectors away. Did I mention moving on local map so you can see enemies?). He or she can't have one farther away, because you would see the hunter on cpl. In other words: yes, it is incredibly easy to survive as a trader. This also assumes that the hunter knows exactly where you are and that can only be when you are so stupid to trade on enemy scouts. And then I didn't even mention that there are hardly any hunters online, because frankly, hunting has become utterly boring. Back in the old days I used to have 80+ kills a game, now I am happy to have 5.

Let me summarise: staying alive while trading isn't difficult, but to die while trading you have to be a really big noob.

Freon22 wrote:One of the things that you tell new player is "do not trade on a route that a hunter has scouts on". So the invisible scouts means that all traders will be making a stupid mistake without ever knowing it.

Even with invisible scouts, traders can check cpl, drop their own forces on their trading sectors, check the news, etc. It's not rocket science. Besides, as I pointed out in the discussion about invisible scouts, they may not be a good idea from the hunter's point of view, because traders will always know that hunters are on their route without the hunter knowing it.

Freon22 wrote: This is easy to prove, you have already coded the unknown scouts. It would not be much of a change to make them invisible. Run one game with invisible scout and see how it goes. I would make one request, since the racial galaxies are going to be full of these invisible scout anyway I would want a warp to the CA in each racial galaxy so that traders can use these invisible scouts also.

If that is a challenge, I am more than willing to accept it.

What the hell are you doing Edgecrusher? I don't need you to be telling me how to trade and stay alive. I can take care of myself but thanks anyway.

I will support a trial game, just make sure that warp to CA is in racial galaxies too. Because with these invisible scouts a trader isn't going to stand a chance of going through neutral galaxy to get to the CA galaxy. The galaxies are going to be full of invisible scout anyway, this may cause some problem with mines in racial. Last thing these invisible scouts should have a very very short life span. I mean if the hunter can't take the time to refresh or pick up his scouts then he should lose them.

You've heard about the Philadelphia Experiment, that went well. We can call this trail game the Edgecrusher Experiment.

Freon22 wrote:What the hell are you doing Edgecrusher? I don't need you to be telling me how to trade and stay alive. I can take care of myself but thanks anyway.

I am trying to defend my point of view, as most people seem to think this is a hunter's game. Thank god people like Page, who isn't exactly a full-time hunter, make me feel like I'm not a complete idiot. I am not trying to tell anyone what to do, I'm just telling everyone what they can do to stay alive. Please do not take my advice.

Freon22 wrote:Last thing these invisible scouts should have a very very short life span. I mean if the hunter can't take the time to refresh or pick up his scouts then he should lose them.

I need scouts to last 12 hours. If I need to refresh them during a hunting session, I show up on cpl and then I may as well stop hunting.

Freon22 wrote:You've heard about the Philadelphia Experiment, that went well. We can call this trail game the Edgecrusher Experiment.

I'd be honored

Page wrote:Now maybe it's just me, but am I not right in saying that the most fun part for hunters and traders is when they clash? I know I always had the most fun when getting shot at whilst trading, although of course I preferred it if I got away (not getting shot at however was just dull and monotonous). And as a hunter the best part was shooting people, and it was better if I killed them.
However the best part for both was when there was a proper chase where it was really close (regardless of what way it went).

So assuming that everyone agrees with this thought, how about coming up with ideas that increase the chance of this happening (invisible scouts would most likely work), and if it needs to be balanced the other way (personally I think it's incredibly easy to survive as a trader with just a bit of speed and not making stupid mistakes) then come up with a way that instead increases survivability/escapability rather than stopping the hunt in the first place.

Page it is easy for you because you have a good connection and are on european times, you can trade with little effort of defense, plus you are all around one of the best traders to play this game, so you really cant base things upon yourself when you are in the upper echelon of the category.