Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

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the570z
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by the570z »

JJ your waaay off topic. Attack rating is about offensive power, not defensive. The simple fact is for an attack rating of only 5 drones do at least DOUBLE THE DAMAGE then any conventional weapon with an attack rating of 5.
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by JettJackson »

the570z wrote:JJ your waaay off topic. Attack rating is about offensive power, not defensive. The simple fact is for an attack rating of only 5 drones do at least DOUBLE THE DAMAGE then any conventional weapon with an attack rating of 5.
Play Ikky one round then come back with your findings
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the570z
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by the570z »

Im almost always ikky, I decided when I came back id try something new. I dont have to be Ik Thorne to know how much of a powerhouse they are, and you dont have to look at the number of Ikky players in every game to know that everybody else does as well. All of this is off topic.

Simply put this thread is about the fact that combat drones attack rating is incredibly low for the damage they do. You are the only person who has come on here to disagree but your arguments all involve straw men. Changing their attack rating would do nothing other then prevent ik thorne players from fedding near fully armed(edited: to add in near before JJ knocked down this entire thing with "they cant fed with 2 weapons", big whoop. This does not weaken the ITAC in any way shape or form, just brings its ratings in line with its damage. Feel free to argue why drones should be underrated, but stop bringing up non-sequiturs like "when the ikky player is mostly dead he has no drones" Having no drones drops your attack rating...
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by Edgecrusher »

I completely agree. Especially about JJ being a douche.

The question is: if we fix the cd's attack rating (which is minor adjustment), what should we change it to? If we make it so that a fully armed MS has about the same rating as other ships, so around 30/, that would mean 15 cds would constitute one attack rating and an ITAC with only cds would be 18/. That means it would be able to hold 75 cds when fedded as a 5/, which is a bit too few. Ikkys have the advantage that they don't have to spend many turns arming, and having to buy 200 new cds every time you fed would negate that advantage too much.

So I suggest we make 33 cds make up one attack rating, which would bring a fully armored MS at 20/ and an ITAC at 5/ with 5*33 + 32 = 198 cds, or 5*33+16 = 172 cds if you use rounding when determining attack rating. That's still better than it used to be in the old days.
the570z
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by the570z »

IMHO just to keep consistency we should move the attack rating calibration on all weapons to average damage against an even level opponent. If we did that all weapons including drones would be rated to exactly how much damage they actually inflct. There would be no arbitrary number for CDS as they would be rated exactly in line with every other weapon.


The reasoning behind changing attack rating of all weapons over just drones is as follows: is accuracy is a critical figure, having it weighed into a weapons stats would be an awesome thing for two reasons. One, it will generally help noobs arm up better as weapons that are more likely to work on lower xp folks will rate pretty well instead of looking weak. Two it just makes for less "except this" when your explaining the game to the noobs, which will make it much easier to learn and thus better.
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by Edgecrusher »

That would be nice, except that there is no average damage. Weapon accuracy depends on your level and that of your opponent. Now there is something to say for the fact that your attack rating would be adjusted by your level, so that higher experienced people can fly ships with higher attack ratings, but it is impossible to predict what the level of your target is.

Mind you, this is all still cosmetics, an attack rating is only indicative of how much damage you do. A ship with a certain set of weapons and an attack rating of 31/18 would hit just as hard as a ship with the same weapons and level and an attack rating of 38/18.

Frankly, we're making this into a big deal where it is not: we are all used to attack ratings as they are and as the only purpose of attack ratings is the fact that you can estimate a ship's strength, there is no problem. The only aspect where this really matters is with the ikky fed ability, where this thread started. I don't even need that to be fixed, don't bother either, but don't start discussions about weapons.
the570z
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by the570z »

Its a stat as you said, I would forgo bothering with all the modifiers and just run the calcs as damage/acc. The CDs would be the only one that requires a combat sim and they should be run at an even level with same class ship.
Using the HHG and Nuke as a base and adding both types of damage together yields the following numbers
HHG, Nuke=300*0.35=105 105 Damage=7.5 Attack Rating

105/7.5=14 14 average damage =1 attack rating

Here are some common weapons if revised on this theme(round up to nearest 10th)
PPL=300*0.34=102 102/14=7.3 Attack Rating(old 7.5)-.2
CBD=250*0.34=85 85/14=6 Old=6.5 -.5
NCM=170*0.51=86.7 86.7/14=6.2 Old=4.5 +1.7
NIPB=150*0.44=66 66/14=4.7 Old=4 +.7
HPL=170*0.51=86.7 86.7/14=6.2 Old=4.5 +1.7

It seems to work pretty well for single damage weapons. Armor and shield need some tweaking though as pulse lasers are showing an average damage by those calcs of higher then they can hit.
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by N.ator »

agree with 570
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JettJackson
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by JettJackson »

the570z wrote:Its a stat as you said, I would forgo bothering with all the modifiers and just run the calcs as damage/acc. The CDs would be the only one that requires a combat sim and they should be run at an even level with same class ship.
Using the HHG and Nuke as a base and adding both types of damage together yields the following numbers
HHG, Nuke=300*0.35=105 105 Damage=7.5 Attack Rating

105/7.5=14 14 average damage =1 attack rating

Here are some common weapons if revised on this theme(round up to nearest 10th)
PPL=300*0.34=102 102/14=7.3 Attack Rating(old 7.5)-.2
CBD=250*0.34=85 85/14=6 Old=6.5 -.5
NCM=170*0.51=86.7 86.7/14=6.2 Old=4.5 +1.7
NIPB=150*0.44=66 66/14=4.7 Old=4 +.7
HPL=170*0.51=86.7 86.7/14=6.2 Old=4.5 +1.7

It seems to work pretty well for single damage weapons. Armor and shield need some tweaking though as pulse lasers are showing an average damage by those calcs of higher then they can hit.
Explain to me why we are going to change the attack rating for weapons, I don't understand the point of this change other than its a change for the sake of change.
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the570z
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Re: Please Fix Ikkies fed abilities

Post by the570z »

I explained it earlier, but here it goes again. The attack rating for CDs needs to be changed as currently they are hopelessly underrated which is amongst other things allowing ikky players to fed with basically full weapons. Allowing anybody to fed with full weapons isnt very fair and in the current game of sparse activity, yields a massive advantage. The ability of ik thorne players to save turns arming is and should remain an positive for the race. However even if they had to buy combat drones every time(which is no guaranteed deal as they can still just drop CDs), they would still have an arm route which in the worst possible case is 3 stops, which is definitely shorter then an equivalent arm for every other race.

This game is already needlessly complicated in many aspects. Attack rating is one minor element that could be simplified drastically by moving every single weapon in the game to the same rating formula. Yes its a minor advantage but its also a minor change. But even small tweaks to streamline the game will help eliminate all of these "except *****" when it comes to explaining how things work to new players. The less complicated the game is to learn, the more people that will do so and the better things are for EVERYBODY. So back to the same old thing, the more intuitive we can make gameplay the more people will actually play said game and I dont know about the rest of you but im strongly under the impression that the more active players the merrier.
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