IG
Moderators: JettJackson, Holti, jouldax
IG
IG not so good of a racial special, perhaps should change it so it fools scanners. Would also be cool if it could be used to change the race displayed to match the ship.
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Kahless_
- Newbie Spam Artist
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- Location: Merry old land of OZ
Re: IG
Change the race displayed???? As in on CPL? HUH!!! How is that realistic? And if you mean on examine, there aint no point cause anyone intelligent will know what race the person is when they meet them, and they wont wait around to read what race the person is.Shtoopid wrote:IG not so good of a racial special, perhaps should change it so it fools scanners. Would also be cool if it could be used to change the race displayed to match the ship.
As for the rest of the suggestion i like to think of these sort of things in the realest possible way. When you are in space and you scan a sector your sensors measure the amount of displacement in the sector. So unless the IG is some sort of ship sized Mary Poppins bag i dont see how this would be realistic.. If this was to be implemented then you would also need to make it so if you scan a sector that has a cloaker with more exp than you you wouldnt see them on scan, because their special Mary Poppins bag is invisible.
Do a search for Illusion Generator posts and you will see suggestion like this have been made before. Some agree, some disagree. I will agree aslong as you let me have a Mary Poppins bag for my cloak.
IF you want to get RPGish on this all of a sudden, Illusions are based on fooling information. CPL is based on Intercepted transmissions so how stupid would it be for your smart IGed ship owner to report in his transmissions that he is salvene if hes rolling as some other ship. As to scanners, I dont see why such a complicated system that can fool the eyes and instruments of a ship cannot broadcast a false return when scanned. Right now Cloak is extremely usefull and IG is probably not worth the half mil or whatever spent on it. Your declaring the two one and the same but IG affords you no protection at any exp. and as it stands it doesnt even fool upon examine and even though you can IG as any ship in the game, You cannot use most of them because you show up on the CPL as what race you actually are and thus IGing as a Ikky ship is kinda stupid and completely ineffective. Please dont compare IG to cloak as they do not have anything in common nor any similar level of usefulness. Oh and if your talking realism what does cloak care about your specific level and not exp. Why can cloak not be seen by people with 20k more xp then you sometimes and 2 exp other times. Last of all why does exp allow you to fire on a cloaked ship, somehow trading more means you can detect and target what others cannot. Ships systems dont adapt. Trust me you dont want to get into the realism argument, so yes you can have your "mary poppins bag" but popping on cpl decloaks you and scanning your sector does the same thing. Oh and exp is no longer important, you just show up as a "Im not here" with an examine at any level because thats about how useful IG is.
<Freon22> Do not use single letters as away of bypassing the bad word filter.
<Freon22> Do not use single letters as away of bypassing the bad word filter.
Kah, this is not about what "you" get for "your" cloak. If you cannot approach a discussion without bringing your personal agenda into it then you have no business discussing changes to the game. I agree that the IG needs tweaking up, it is by far the weakest of the specials. Salvene have some compensation for that in the strength of the EoS, but it would be nice to see the IG do a little more. There have been a number of good suggestions in the past, and I will dig them up when I have time.
Read the rules, follow the rules, and stop complaining!
I swear 2 year olds bicker less....no one is ever going to agree on anything with factions like this.
Anyways, if you tweak IG only tweak it slightly. I say this because it is the only tech other than DCS that doesn't have a chance to fail, which is a strength in itself. It is also not based on experience which is another strength. And again this idea pops up quite frequently here and nothing has been done about it suggestion most are happy with the way it is, or no feasible solution can be found. As it stands now I think you would make IG too powerful.
Anyways, if you tweak IG only tweak it slightly. I say this because it is the only tech other than DCS that doesn't have a chance to fail, which is a strength in itself. It is also not based on experience which is another strength. And again this idea pops up quite frequently here and nothing has been done about it suggestion most are happy with the way it is, or no feasible solution can be found. As it stands now I think you would make IG too powerful.
-when there is a will there is a way
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Kahless_
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My cloak refers to the cloak on my ship. And as for disecting the suggestion rationally, i believe i did that, i picked out the reasons i felt the suggestionwas flawed based on realism and the fact that i dont believe shtoopid understands how useful an IG can be.
The basis of my arguement was this, i believe that the cloak is a type of IG, but instead of IG'ing as another ship, it IG's as open space. Thus a cloaked ship should scan the same way as an IG'ed ship. Now if this suggestion is implemented on the IG, logic dicttates that it should overflow into Cloak.
Now for the record, i believe this is a bad idea. An invisible cloak is overpowering. However consider this, a person IG'ing their ship as a /0 could run around without showing on scan which would be the equivalent of a cloaked ship not showing on scans.
Perhaps an improvement on the IG would be as follows. When you examine an IG'ed ship which is of a higher level, it may appear as the ship which it is IG'ed as, all the CD's and HP's and such.
{Edit for clarity}
What i mean is if you are IGed as a MS, on examien screen it shows 1 HP, 1000 shields, 400 drones, 100 armour etc. So people can no longer tell if thats a real FU that their about to shoot at or something like that
{End Edit for clarity}
And as for your comments about "armory vs the game" i think you will find its more like "the game vs armory". Changes like the proposed cloak change were designed as a knee jerk reaction to the fact that armory was dominating using cloak. My comments about applying the same standard you want to apply to the IG to the cloak (as would be logical and fair), would be bad.
I believe there have been much better suggestion about improvements to the IG in the past and as i said, have a look through the suggestion thread (or wait till Ard does it for you).
Now as for sterling, i dont see how you can consider armory's views over represented, we have 2 members on the committee and i dont need to point out which alliance dominates the committee surely...Be careful, you are bordering on criticism of moderators actions. If you have an official complaint, forward it to your favourite committee member or BOB or whoever. If you have a personal gripe, message me and keep your complaints out of public forums. And stop listening to people telling you about what is going on on the committee board, its bad for you and the person telling you. Only warning.
Summary
1) This suggestion is too overpower
2) See underlined section for my suggested improvement
3) See other threads or wait for ard to post other suggestions which have been made in the past
4) Sterl, hold your tongue before you get in more trouble than you need to
5) Mary Poppins bag was just the best metaphor i could come up with the describe what i felt this suggestion was trying to do.
6) Now stop ignoring all my posts accusing me of bias and saying i can not be constructive. I clearly can be and am constructive, i just don't agree with you and i would feel the same way about this suggestion no matter which alliance i was in.
The basis of my arguement was this, i believe that the cloak is a type of IG, but instead of IG'ing as another ship, it IG's as open space. Thus a cloaked ship should scan the same way as an IG'ed ship. Now if this suggestion is implemented on the IG, logic dicttates that it should overflow into Cloak.
Now for the record, i believe this is a bad idea. An invisible cloak is overpowering. However consider this, a person IG'ing their ship as a /0 could run around without showing on scan which would be the equivalent of a cloaked ship not showing on scans.
Perhaps an improvement on the IG would be as follows. When you examine an IG'ed ship which is of a higher level, it may appear as the ship which it is IG'ed as, all the CD's and HP's and such.
{Edit for clarity}
What i mean is if you are IGed as a MS, on examien screen it shows 1 HP, 1000 shields, 400 drones, 100 armour etc. So people can no longer tell if thats a real FU that their about to shoot at or something like that
{End Edit for clarity}
And as for your comments about "armory vs the game" i think you will find its more like "the game vs armory". Changes like the proposed cloak change were designed as a knee jerk reaction to the fact that armory was dominating using cloak. My comments about applying the same standard you want to apply to the IG to the cloak (as would be logical and fair), would be bad.
I believe there have been much better suggestion about improvements to the IG in the past and as i said, have a look through the suggestion thread (or wait till Ard does it for you).
Now as for sterling, i dont see how you can consider armory's views over represented, we have 2 members on the committee and i dont need to point out which alliance dominates the committee surely...Be careful, you are bordering on criticism of moderators actions. If you have an official complaint, forward it to your favourite committee member or BOB or whoever. If you have a personal gripe, message me and keep your complaints out of public forums. And stop listening to people telling you about what is going on on the committee board, its bad for you and the person telling you. Only warning.
Summary
1) This suggestion is too overpower
2) See underlined section for my suggested improvement
3) See other threads or wait for ard to post other suggestions which have been made in the past
4) Sterl, hold your tongue before you get in more trouble than you need to
5) Mary Poppins bag was just the best metaphor i could come up with the describe what i felt this suggestion was trying to do.
6) Now stop ignoring all my posts accusing me of bias and saying i can not be constructive. I clearly can be and am constructive, i just don't agree with you and i would feel the same way about this suggestion no matter which alliance i was in.
Ah thinking about this made me remember a story when my brother was playing. He got his brand new shiny EoS and decided to log off in fed as a 1/6 IST. I told him it was dumb but he wanted to see if it would work. Anyways he logs in later and is like dan come look! He's like I got my 2nd kill and sure enough, someone had examined him in fed, not bothered to read examine I guess (he was right on hq so he could of unoed) and triggered his death on my on my bro. Now I know you are like IG can fool any newb just fine but....
7/2/2004 8:16:29 AM Death Jester flying Mr. Death Cruiser was killed by CWizzLE in Sector #976
7/2/2004 8:16:29 AM CWizzLE was killed by Death Jester flying Mr. Death Cruiser in Sector #976
I'm gonna say Jester has been around the block
. So maybe not so useless after all 
7/2/2004 8:16:29 AM Death Jester flying Mr. Death Cruiser was killed by CWizzLE in Sector #976
7/2/2004 8:16:29 AM CWizzLE was killed by Death Jester flying Mr. Death Cruiser in Sector #976
I'm gonna say Jester has been around the block
. So maybe not so useless after all -when there is a will there is a way