Jouldax - Racial Evolution

XDemonX
Newbie Spam Artist
Posts: 657
Joined: Sat Nov 16, 2002 4:28 am
Location: Highland
Contact:

Re: Jouldax - Racial Evolution

Post by XDemonX »

Making it 5 days before everything is opened will kill early hunting. Again, what kind of results are you expecting by doing this? I understand you want to make the game more interesting. If I were leading next round how'd i do to counter your concept is have no one explore off the bat, wait until you are near maxing turns and slowly move to explore only to keep off max turns. Only explore with turns you HAVE to. Point being, you wanna hold off the initial first couple days. No reason to explore if you have to spend turns again exploring to find where the borders open up.
This is a beat, you just can't touch.....
Image
Astax
SMR Coder
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:55 pm

Re: Jouldax - Racial Evolution

Post by Astax »

Things I do not like about this map:
1) What is that thing in the middle of racials? A huge waste of turns? Two warps to go between racials... I really do not like this. Also assuming that galaxy in middle will be all bars or something, otherwise it will be mined to hell. It will probably still get hunted, since u can just follow ur victim back to a racial to pod him.

2) Pgalaxies again... I Actually loved no planet galaxies this round. Even thou not all planets were created equal (Some too close to UNO, others too far from drones etc), it was still nice. An alliance could elect to build any number of planets they could hold, not be really forced to build whatever is in their p galaxy. You had lot of new strategies this round, and I liked it.

3) No UG for 3 days... Racial locks are a bit much, can we do dual racial galaxies at least? How will the neutral traders be distributed? Any ship dealers in these racials? Could be OP for some races... Game already feels too much like lottery picking the race. Get a race with good trade route off the bat and you will do very well that round, otherwise oh well.

If you want a bit more dynamic universe we could do a random event generator that could say change the galaxy a bit with an hourly event... Low level stuff that could have big impact like ports changing races, new uno or ca opening up, some location offering a cheaper ship (like 50% off)... some fun crap like that. Could also disable some warps temporarily etc. Maybe that's what u had in mind.
JettJackson
Fledgling Spam Artist
Posts: 3572
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:38 am
Location: Eastpointe MI

Re: Jouldax - Racial Evolution

Post by JettJackson »

jouldax wrote:
JettJackson wrote:I am firmly against UG waiting until day 3. What is the point of that? I only limitation with no benefit of it. Furthermore 8x8 is too small for racials even with limited connectivity and walling it is still too small. 10x10 would be much better. There needs to be at least some space.
1. As stated above, I'd have to put a UG in everyone's starting racial, otherwise only 1 race would have it.

2. For those of you that can count, if you look at the map, the racials are 10x10 :P
You must have changed that, would the UG be posted immediately? If not it doesn't make any sense to wait.
Lead: Sesame Street, Rogue Squad

Co-Lead: Suckas, Black Sun Ascending, Wraith Squadron, Fool's Errend, Team Poker, The Phantom Order, Toxic #5

Member of: Team Pup and Suds, Nintendo Power, System Failure, Crusaders, new dawn, Cereal Killers, Armory, Armory V2, _-=`Perfection`=-_, The Guild, Ragnarok, Heimdall, United Rebels, ilLegitimate Basterds

I've seen and done it all
JettJackson
Fledgling Spam Artist
Posts: 3572
Joined: Tue Mar 01, 2005 12:38 am
Location: Eastpointe MI

Re: Jouldax - Racial Evolution

Post by JettJackson »

XDemonX wrote:Making it 5 days before everything is opened will kill early hunting. Again, what kind of results are you expecting by doing this? I understand you want to make the game more interesting. If I were leading next round how'd i do to counter your concept is have no one explore off the bat, wait until you are near maxing turns and slowly move to explore only to keep off max turns. Only explore with turns you HAVE to. Point being, you wanna hold off the initial first couple days. No reason to explore if you have to spend turns again exploring to find where the borders open up.
I would only explore until maps can be bought on day 3 then I wouldn't waste a turn after that.
Lead: Sesame Street, Rogue Squad

Co-Lead: Suckas, Black Sun Ascending, Wraith Squadron, Fool's Errend, Team Poker, The Phantom Order, Toxic #5

Member of: Team Pup and Suds, Nintendo Power, System Failure, Crusaders, new dawn, Cereal Killers, Armory, Armory V2, _-=`Perfection`=-_, The Guild, Ragnarok, Heimdall, United Rebels, ilLegitimate Basterds

I've seen and done it all
Astax
SMR Coder
Posts: 317
Joined: Thu Aug 15, 2002 9:55 pm

Re: Jouldax - Racial Evolution

Post by Astax »

Well 100 turns for racial is not bad. Either way I think explorer xp needs to be more like 20 per sector, but that's just me
jouldax
Newbie Spam Artist
Posts: 582
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:38 pm

Re: Jouldax - Racial Evolution

Post by jouldax »

Astax wrote:Things I do not like about this map:
1) What is that thing in the middle of racials? A huge waste of turns? Two warps to go between racials... I really do not like this. Also assuming that galaxy in middle will be all bars or something, otherwise it will be mined to hell. It will probably still get hunted, since u can just follow ur victim back to a racial to pod him.

2) Pgalaxies again... I Actually loved no planet galaxies this round. Even thou not all planets were created equal (Some too close to UNO, others too far from drones etc), it was still nice. An alliance could elect to build any number of planets they could hold, not be really forced to build whatever is in their p galaxy. You had lot of new strategies this round, and I liked it.

3) No UG for 3 days... Racial locks are a bit much, can we do dual racial galaxies at least? How will the neutral traders be distributed? Any ship dealers in these racials? Could be OP for some races... Game already feels too much like lottery picking the race. Get a race with good trade route off the bat and you will do very well that round, otherwise oh well.

If you want a bit more dynamic universe we could do a random event generator that could say change the galaxy a bit with an hourly event... Low level stuff that could have big impact like ports changing races, new uno or ca opening up, some location offering a cheaper ship (like 50% off)... some fun crap like that. Could also disable some warps temporarily etc. Maybe that's what u had in mind.
I don't mind pulling the warps out of the center (I said in the write-up that it would have all locations) if that's a concern, but it makes it easier to implement the racial evolution. I had already designed a map with previously racial pairings, but if you guys want a dual-structure to begin with, that's ok by me. 48 hours for the pairings, 48 hours for the racials alone, 48 hours for one part of neutral, 48 hours for second part of neutral, then pgals. I can stick 1 UG for each racial pairing from day 1. As for racial routes, I spend painstaking hours trying to make sure there are no OP routes, but the dynamic nature of this game will change routes around over time anyhow.

On the pgal issue, open maps have never worked, and it was one of the biggest problems with this past game. We only did it to have something different. I do think some better solutions need to be created in terms of more dynamic pgals, but I need some more ideas from the population.

On the temporary event issue - most of that requires coding. I am planning on moving warps around, re-racing ports, changing walls and thereby changing routes, adding/removing locations, etc. This all has to be done within reason to support route building and pgal defensibility, but we can make things more interesting.
jouldax
Newbie Spam Artist
Posts: 582
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:38 pm

Re: Jouldax - Racial Evolution

Post by jouldax »

as a compromise, Astax, I'd like to leave the funnel galaxy in place but I will add some connectivity in the corners of the racials so there's at least some easier paths without using the central galaxy. Don't forget, you can still walk. Also, just to lay out why this map and why now:

1. The game races to the end-game then stagnates every round
2. The game gets boring and predictable after the first week
3. The end game goes the exact same way every round unless things change
4. There's no need to develop new strategy if the map never changes
5. The game is boring in general without reasons to keep logging in and checking around
Storm
Posts: 13
Joined: Thu Jul 28, 2011 10:55 pm
Location: here

Re: Jouldax - Racial Evolution

Post by Storm »

The idea of things shifting around a bit is growing on me...somewhat. You'd need someone in each alliance in a really fast ship that would be willing to go out an explore often to check for any changes though. Perhaps an xp bonus for going out and scouting the changes? You wouldn't get the scouting xp for going through sectors that didn't change...but if sector 1 used to only connect to sector 2, but now will connect to sectors 10 and 11 as well, you get xp for going through 1, 10, and 11 and discovering this. Not a huge xp bonus, but enough to make it worthwhile?
jouldax
Newbie Spam Artist
Posts: 582
Joined: Mon Nov 16, 2009 3:38 pm

Re: Jouldax - Racial Evolution

Post by jouldax »

I'm not going to re-wall a whole galaxy in one shot, if that's what you guys think I'm implying :P. The other thing I haven't tested yet is if walling changes will just show up on the map without having to re-explore. I think one game where I forgot the UG you could just see the location on the map. I'll have to check in beta.

As for exp gains if scouting IS required - that's unfortunately a coding issue and out of my control. Thing is, you'll notice the multipliers changing if scouting is required and routes change, so that might be some help. You could also have your traders do a trade at each major port once routes change, and thereby avoid having to scout all the sectors. Just some thoughts. I'll think over your comments as well.
Locked