Winter Solstice

XDemonX
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by XDemonX »

jouldax wrote:Honestly, I didn't even want to bring up last game or this game, for that matter, which has us (casual) against pretty much all of the active hunters in the game. You know what we did last game? We took several new players, including Kenny in an NMV, and let them have FUN! I understand that our infrequent opping isn't your idea of fun or that it limits the amount of targets you have during the day, but killing italics destroys the game much worse than any map as does repeated killing of new players, which happened several times last round. Thankfully our guys have proven to have some good intestinal fortitude but it is really taxing to keep spirits up.

There are several aspects to this game, including trading, hunting and opping. We're trying to help out the limited new user base as much as we can. I don't think everyone on your team shares your opinion as well about the round or the map. This game isn't supposed to be a lovefest but, if we want new player retention, there needs to be some level of teaching in addition to attempts at domination.
When people from my alliance is doing what they did last game and just camp INSIDE your galaxy for hours not letting anyone move then that is not the way the game is supposed to be played.
I'm not so sure you don't think this is the way the game is supposed to be played. There's not really enough activity or cash to create a reasonable enough minefield when people are clearing every day from one alliance or the other. It's not about trying to reinvent the wheel - it's about trying to cater to the player base we have. There are 2 different philosophies: play the game like it used to be and try to dominate every round or keep things competitive and, while playing seriously, try to help everyone have a good time and grow a better attitude in the player base. I wish more people felt like the latter than the former but I don't think that's the case. I can't blame people for wanting to win either so it puts the game in a precarious position between the hardcore and the casual.
JJ: I won't post the message you sent me for obvious reasons but it does align slightly with what Jouldax is saying. It is difficult when there are a lot of players that you consider are "hardcore" that only are active because of this. The reason my alliance gets stacked is because I am not a casual player. I give people something to do. I have no denied a single player from playing with me if they want to. I often hunt and I let anyone who wants to hunt with me and learn the game. Goey messaged me on Diablo 3 wanting to join me.. Do I tell him no, go play with JJ or play by yourself and quit a week later because the game is boring by yourself? I play at a extremely high pace and am willing/have taught people as the game goes on. It is difficult for a lot of these players to play with someone who doesn't plan ops.. doesn't plan anything because they're "casual" people. I think those casual people shouldn't be leading alliances.

This map hurts the casual players more than the "hardcore" players. You are limiting what people can do. You are not giving yourself a chance to teach those new players that SMR is not all about opping once a week. You are missing out on what makes SMR fun...

If you want a balanced game of players.. run a committee draft game.. I cannot force people to play against me who enjoy playing with me. Again.. I am handing Azn leadership and i'll just trade so you can have your "casual" game to train the 2 newbies you have at the expense of the entire game or whatever you wanna do.. JJ, as always is crying that my alliance is stacked with all elite players and he has no chance even though he gave ZERO effort in recruiting.
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JettJackson
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by JettJackson »

XDemonX wrote:
jouldax wrote:Honestly, I didn't even want to bring up last game or this game, for that matter, which has us (casual) against pretty much all of the active hunters in the game. You know what we did last game? We took several new players, including Kenny in an NMV, and let them have FUN! I understand that our infrequent opping isn't your idea of fun or that it limits the amount of targets you have during the day, but killing italics destroys the game much worse than any map as does repeated killing of new players, which happened several times last round. Thankfully our guys have proven to have some good intestinal fortitude but it is really taxing to keep spirits up.

There are several aspects to this game, including trading, hunting and opping. We're trying to help out the limited new user base as much as we can. I don't think everyone on your team shares your opinion as well about the round or the map. This game isn't supposed to be a lovefest but, if we want new player retention, there needs to be some level of teaching in addition to attempts at domination.
When people from my alliance is doing what they did last game and just camp INSIDE your galaxy for hours not letting anyone move then that is not the way the game is supposed to be played.
I'm not so sure you don't think this is the way the game is supposed to be played. There's not really enough activity or cash to create a reasonable enough minefield when people are clearing every day from one alliance or the other. It's not about trying to reinvent the wheel - it's about trying to cater to the player base we have. There are 2 different philosophies: play the game like it used to be and try to dominate every round or keep things competitive and, while playing seriously, try to help everyone have a good time and grow a better attitude in the player base. I wish more people felt like the latter than the former but I don't think that's the case. I can't blame people for wanting to win either so it puts the game in a precarious position between the hardcore and the casual.
JJ: I won't post the message you sent me for obvious reasons but it does align slightly with what Jouldax is saying. It is difficult when there are a lot of players that you consider are "hardcore" that only are active because of this. The reason my alliance gets stacked is because I am not a casual player. I give people something to do. I have no denied a single player from playing with me if they want to. I often hunt and I let anyone who wants to hunt with me and learn the game. Goey messaged me on Diablo 3 wanting to join me.. Do I tell him no, go play with JJ or play by yourself and quit a week later because the game is boring by yourself? I play at a extremely high pace and am willing/have taught people as the game goes on. It is difficult for a lot of these players to play with someone who doesn't plan ops.. doesn't plan anything because they're "casual" people. I think those casual people shouldn't be leading alliances.

This map hurts the casual players more than the "hardcore" players. You are limiting what people can do. You are not giving yourself a chance to teach those new players that SMR is not all about opping once a week. You are missing out on what makes SMR fun...

If you want a balanced game of players.. run a committee draft game.. I cannot force people to play against me who enjoy playing with me. Again.. I am handing Azn leadership and i'll just trade so you can have your "casual" game to train the 2 newbies you have at the expense of the entire game or whatever you wanna do.. JJ, as always is crying that my alliance is stacked with all elite players and he has no chance even though he gave ZERO effort in recruiting.

I am not leading, this isn't my alliance and I am not recruiting anyone. I am busy enough as it is to play enough to matter. I am here to have fun which last game I did have fun because I did what I wanted and eventually came on to help a team out continuing to have fun. My years of being absolutely nuts about this game are over, so your aggression and spite towards us is pointless. If you go on a domination spree, I will gladly go back to what I did last game and have fun that way. I am not going to play the game you want to play just because you expect me to.
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XDemonX
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by XDemonX »

i'm done trying to contribute. Keep rolling out these garbage maps.
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Aendar
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by Aendar »

I'm fairly new and half of this conversation just goes on beyond my knowledge. But I have some questions, mostly directed towards XdemonX as I don't understand all of what is been said.
How is this map limiting casual players and benefits hardcore players?
What is a hardcore player?
I really do enjoy opping. What is wrong with that? Yes, I did save up turns when i was able to op but i can't always op, then I just trade.

Furthermore, I died 3 times in only 1 week last round, mostly because of my own stupidity. I didn't mind being hunted and get killed, what got to me most is the insane amount of EXP loss. I guess for most new players losing a weeks worth of EXP is more demotivating then any (garbage) map to play or any activity level I encountered so far.
XDemonX
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by XDemonX »

Aendar wrote:I'm fairly new and half of this conversation just goes on beyond my knowledge. But I have some questions, mostly directed towards XdemonX as I don't understand all of what is been said.
How is this map limiting casual players and benefits hardcore players?
What is a hardcore player?
I really do enjoy opping. What is wrong with that? Yes, I did save up turns when i was able to op but i can't always op, then I just trade.

Furthermore, I died 3 times in only 1 week last round, mostly because of my own stupidity. I didn't mind being hunted and get killed, what got to me most is the insane amount of EXP loss. I guess for most new players losing a weeks worth of EXP is more demotivating then any (garbage) map to play or any activity level I encountered so far.
Hi Aender,

It is great you are taking to the webboard and trying to learn as much as possible. There are more aspects of the game that you are not able to take part of, that is in my eyes is some of the most fun the game has to offer. JJ/Jouldax are referring to "casual" players as players who maybe login once or twice a day not putting much time into the game. This limits what they actually do in the game which is either trading.. or opping. "Hardcore" players are players that like to invest more time into the game. Because of the ability of the screen to auto refresh this makes it easier for more "hardcore" players to emerge. With spending more time in the game, you have options to do more things such as hunt, mine/force management, route build, defend and other stuff. These activities take typically longer to complete as trading can be done in < 10 minutes a day and opping can be done < 1h every 3-4 days.

Before you joined, the game was more about "hardcore" players. As it should be. If you invest more time into the game, you should be able to do more for your alliance and yourself (as it is with ANY game). When I first played what made me really love the game was the strategic part of the game. You could spend hours planning how to make a route for your alliance. Plan where to mine so you could defend your galaxy better. Set traps for the enemies.. There was so much to do you never have much turns to do anything else. We use to make the casual players op and let the hardcore players do support and defending. There use to be a guy named Sergei that was in that "hardcore" category. If he showed up to an op with more than 200 turns then it was a luxary because he used his turns so efficiently doing other things the casual players could not do.

Sadly, the admins want to turn this game into a casual type game and not the game it once was. This map is basically made so the hardcore players won't have anything to do. The game will shortly turn into login every 2-3 days to op for an hour then logoff for another 2-3 days. I do agree opping is fun but opping is EXTREMELY simple. There are no mines to have to clear.. planets are easily bustable so you don't need to do any turn management. Leading ops use to be stressful but now, anyone can do it. Because of the lack of time invested into actually building planets (which is usually only done by 1-2 people) people don't really care if their planet gets busted.. heck most of the alliances stay in fed now so activity is lowered and there isn't many people online to defend.

If you have more questions or want me to expand on anything I talked about feel free to ask.
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Holti
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by Holti »

Sadly, the admins want to turn this game into a casual type game and not the game it once was.
When I first played Space Merchants in 1998 or 1999, I was a graduate student who had a lot of time to invest in playing a browser based game. Now I am a professor who has considerably less time. The playerbase has aged 15 years - we now have spouses, children, and jobs that must be our first priority, not SMR. The admins are trying to respond to the fact that the playerbase has aged.
If you want more hardcore players, then you need to bring younger players, preferably students who don't have jobs and don't need to study much.
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by Aendar »

Or people like me, who ignore their spouses and kids and slack off from work!
Holti
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by Holti »

Or people like me, who ignore their spouses and kids and slack off from work!
Yep - more than a few people have been divorced or lost their jobs due to their devotion to games. Hell, at least one person died due to playing online games and not eating or drinking.

But a lot of us would rather keep our significant others, have our kids know us as more than just a human that sits at a computer, and keep our jobs. I still have student loans to pay off, after all. Plus, if I'm living in a cardboard box under a bridge, I won't be able to play games at all.
XDemonX
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by XDemonX »

Holti wrote:
Sadly, the admins want to turn this game into a casual type game and not the game it once was.
When I first played Space Merchants in 1998 or 1999, I was a graduate student who had a lot of time to invest in playing a browser based game. Now I am a professor who has considerably less time. The playerbase has aged 15 years - we now have spouses, children, and jobs that must be our first priority, not SMR. The admins are trying to respond to the fact that the playerbase has aged.
If you want more hardcore players, then you need to bring younger players, preferably students who don't have jobs and don't need to study much.
Holti,

Just because few have aged and can't devote as much time doesn't meant he entire game has to change to accommodate those players who can't be "hardcore". I work at a company working 5 days a week as well as enrolling in my graduate program. I still find time to be "Hardcore". As the game aged, it has made it easier and easier to be considered hardcore. For example, ajax is amazing. The screen auto refreshes. I can do other things while I have one screen dedicated to autorefreshing SMR. It isn't like I am staring at the screen doing nothing else but clicking like you had to in the past. TeamSpeak and cell phones make it even easier to be hardcore because you can be available and have other people have watch. There isn't much activities in today's world that you can do that doesn't involve you at least close to a device that can access SMR. Very easy for someone to text me saying "Hey can you hop on? they are opping".

For players who get busy and cannot dedicate time they can still participate in a hardcore alliance. With the playerbase being so small, there shouldn't be a "casual alliance". I discussed this with Jouldax (I believe JJ) and Bouncer that it is extremely important to have 2 strong leaders lead the alliance.. aka have 2 hardcore players lead. I assumed Jouldax played that role but with a newborn it must be difficult. But there is no reason to have this "casual" mindset. I know personally I won't last much longer playing this game that admins are trying to turn into a casual game like minecraft or something.

Just to recap.. a casual player can play in a hardcore environment. A Hardcore player cannot play in a casual environment.
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JettJackson
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Re: Winter Solstice

Post by JettJackson »

XDemonX wrote:
Holti wrote:
Sadly, the admins want to turn this game into a casual type game and not the game it once was.
When I first played Space Merchants in 1998 or 1999, I was a graduate student who had a lot of time to invest in playing a browser based game. Now I am a professor who has considerably less time. The playerbase has aged 15 years - we now have spouses, children, and jobs that must be our first priority, not SMR. The admins are trying to respond to the fact that the playerbase has aged.
If you want more hardcore players, then you need to bring younger players, preferably students who don't have jobs and don't need to study much.
Holti,

Just because few have aged and can't devote as much time doesn't meant he entire game has to change to accommodate those players who can't be "hardcore". I work at a company working 5 days a week as well as enrolling in my graduate program. I still find time to be "Hardcore". As the game aged, it has made it easier and easier to be considered hardcore. For example, ajax is amazing. The screen auto refreshes. I can do other things while I have one screen dedicated to autorefreshing SMR. It isn't like I am staring at the screen doing nothing else but clicking like you had to in the past. TeamSpeak and cell phones make it even easier to be hardcore because you can be available and have other people have watch. There isn't much activities in today's world that you can do that doesn't involve you at least close to a device that can access SMR. Very easy for someone to text me saying "Hey can you hop on? they are opping".

For players who get busy and cannot dedicate time they can still participate in a hardcore alliance. With the playerbase being so small, there shouldn't be a "casual alliance". I discussed this with Jouldax (I believe JJ) and Bouncer that it is extremely important to have 2 strong leaders lead the alliance.. aka have 2 hardcore players lead. I assumed Jouldax played that role but with a newborn it must be difficult. But there is no reason to have this "casual" mindset. I know personally I won't last much longer playing this game that admins are trying to turn into a casual game like minecraft or something.

Just to recap.. a casual player can play in a hardcore environment. A Hardcore player cannot play in a casual environment.

Your alliance has several strong leaders in it, and hardcore players. Once again like I told you before and told you in this thread. I am not a hardcore player, I don't have time to lead and I work 5 days a week. On top of that I am busy most other times, you are expecting me to play your game when A. I don't have the time, and honestly B. I don't have the ambition to. There is no requirement for me to have to me running around with my head on fire in this game. Sorry but those days are over.
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