XDemonX's Desert Oasis

jouldax
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by jouldax »

Holti has not only developed the player base through her "casual" alliance but also brought back returning vets and catered to the euro-friendly crowd that has been frustrated for a long time. Red Rocket only ops for you or Azn and a 12 hour time difference is very different from a 5-6 hour one. You're seeing the game through your eyes and how you want it to be played with your tiny fraction of the remaining player base. I don't know why you believe there is more than a handful of "hardcore" players left in smr but your entire thesis hinges on the fact that there's some massive group of players that has unlimited time to do all these ops, counter ops, mining, etc; all of the support things in the game that used to be a lot more commonplace but have basically gone away due to the shrinking player base. The problem I and the admin team are trying to address is how to include everyone, both the hardcores and the casual.

Just because the current map has some drawbacks to doing some of those things doesn't mean you can't take your hyper-active team and do them - you just won't have any opposition. Furthermore, there have been several maps over the last couple years that have been highly conducive to those activities, and yet, they rarely seem to get done except in draft games.

If you agree with everything Bouncer said, including
-My main concern with the OP idea is player turnout. Unless both teams really get 8+ on at once, it will be hard to take a planet (which is the goal, I know). Still something to be concerned about though. It's unlikely both alliances will get enough to have support roles at ops.
, then you're acknowledging this fact and still trying to push a map based on how you think the game should be played rather than the best way to encourage activity from the current player base.

Frankly, I thought all games should be draft games starting about a year ago, but everyone :D about it, so we stopped. This game can't be played to its fullest with the current player base unless it's a draft round, and even then, those have been dying quickly. You've already made my point with your own examples - your small alliance of hardcores and its subsequent iteration killed several rounds and discouraged a meaningful number of players. As for Halo, CoD took a bunch of their player base and the hardcore players still continue to play just like you play smr. Equipment ruined Halo 3, not this shift to casual, because no abilities were taken away from the hardcore players - it just broadened the player base and put less of an emphasis on playing 20 hours a day. You want to dominate Halo 2/3? You still can. My World of Warcraft example was MUCH more relevant since it's the second largest online game.

This is not about catering to casuals, it's about involving everyone and trying to maximize activity. Forcing people to do things they don't want or have time to do doesn't work. Just like your map, in its current state, won't work either (frankly, even with the changes we're proposing, I'm still not sure it won't turn out poorly when no one can take planets, which will likely drive the less active side to go inactive for the rest of the round). However, we will turn this into a reasonable draft map with a bunch of tweaks and play it next round. I am for anything that will help this game get more active/grow, and a draft round of any kind will hopefully allow new players to learn new things, which this map will force them to do.
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by XDemonX »

I will stop arguing those other points since that is going no where.

The one point I do want to make is I don't even remember a time.. ever.. where a planet has been "unbustable". I have taken level 70's with less than 10 people before. What usually happens when you face an alliance that has a extremely strong galaxy that you can't bust on your own? What usually happens is a merge happens and big ops happen. You start reaching out to people you won't usually reach out to, to get a bigger op. That reaching out doesn't happen if you can casually get 6-7 people and be 100% effective at ops. I will patiently wait to see this game play out so I will have some current relevant data to share.

I agree draft games should happen. I think more people will enjoy them than not. But draft games will not fit the casual play style.
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Aendar
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by Aendar »

Noob question:

what exactly is a draft round.
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by XDemonX »

Aendar wrote:Noob question:

what exactly is a draft round.
Aender,

Once in a while the admins will host a draft game. People will get the opportunity to nominate themselves to be a leader of the draft round, then either admin team or the playerbase will vote on which 2 people get selected to lead against each other in the draft round.

The game then will open for people to select races and join but you will have zero turns. Then, a few days later in IRC chat, the leaders will take turns picking players to be on their team (drafting them). Once everyone is selected the game starts shortly after that. This ensures everyone gets to be placed on a team.

Usually there are some pros and cons of this.

Pros:
- More activity as alliances are bigger and more people are working together
- More competitive games as drafts are "usually" more balanced
- Gives people the opportunity to play with people they haven't played with before
- Gives opportunity for newer players to play and learn with some of the better players
- Better communication across the board as there are more people to interact with

Cons:
- You are forced to play with people you may not want to play with
- Less targets to shoot as half the playerbase is in your alliance
- If alliances are not balanced correctly, then the game gets boring real fast.
- You don't get to leave your alliance
- Games are usually pretty short

Overall:

I personally would push for a draft game almost every game. The drafting process is fun (usually Jouldax does a funny commentary) people pile into a community TS server as well as IRC to discuss the picks. The biggest ops I have seen have been produced because of drafts. Here are some awesome screen shots of previous draft rounds.

Image

34 + ship fleet battle gets pretty intense :)

Image

Also, 20+ person ops are a good time as well.
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Aendar
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by Aendar »

Sounds like fun!
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by aznplaya06 »

First off let it be known i was strong-armed into posting here because these wbs are obsolete save a few people. Also i read through the map design and maybe the first couple posts of this thread because you guys like to post a bunch of long winded posts for no reason so now its my turn to ramble on about everything. As for the map design.
1. the racial gals need more connectivity either by more warps in them or just outside in desert to get from one place to another. under 25-30 turns to get from furthest one to another 1 is about right. Anything more will be pure hell.

2. i agree that the neutral needs to have the best routes premade maybe make it so you cant but the neutral one as well so alliances have to put in the time to explore it (reasoning behind that is alot of vets will just sit for 2 days at start then wait till maps are bought and get top trader and trade then, leaving most of the unpleasant start stuff to the newer players or others). then after reading that it still wont prevent them from doing it but dislike ppl waiting for maps being bought. maybe make it so no maps can be bought for a game.

3. i like the circle design that we had for just outside pgals from a previous draft game however there does need to be the side exits like before with farther unos that can be reached from that area otherwise it would be hard for counters to take place. ppl would get trapped inside and then nothing. (didnt look that closesly xdx mighta put them in).

4. As for gameplay and making it harder to bust planets and taking multiple ops to accomplish stuff i agree whole heartily. As of now pgals are too small and easy to be cleared/opped with this reduced planet lvls. I know that we are averaging 7-8 ppl if we are lucky per ops now but this is supposed to be a long term strategy game. An alliance should not be able to completely steamroll anothers area in 1 day. Creating and defending planets, territory, and routes were a huge draw to this game back in the day which has pretty much become a thing of the past. more effort needs to be put into bringing those aspects back into the game instead of making this game easier for ppl that log on every couple days for an hr then wont be back for another couple days.

5. I am not knocking ppl playing casually but ppl that put the extra effort and time into this game should not be punished by making things progressively easier. For the record there is only 1 hard core player left in this game and that is me. XDX is not even close to hard core, his activity is way down, it just seems hes hardcore because the passion he has for this game. JJ used to be couple games ago but now its only me.

6. Regarding collider being kicked due to op times(i dont recall the situation but). Yes it sucks that there are times where we have an odd man left out because the majority of the alliance plays at a certain time. I applaud u for catering to those who don't get to op all the time. Ive scheduled my ops usually around the majority of my player's timezones but i also schedule ops and different time to accommodate those who can not usually op usually at the sacrifice of myself and other team members (ex:the 5-6 am ops i would do on weekends to let euros op with us).

7. Now im getting off topic but in a couple threads earlier i read i was being bashed for killing italics. It was either jouldax or holti that said it(not sure who). someone talked about me killing leesus in rapid succession. Rapid succession was over a period of days. All which he was vet status and 1 was when i caught him returning from an op. I do not appreciate attacks on me because of things like this. If you are bringing italics to ops(he wasn't at the time) expect them to be killed. Every time i kill someone who may be vet status but isn't someone who is either supported by their alliance or still learning i usually message them to give them pointers for the future. Ask nimms or falkor who i have fought over the past couple games. Falkor used to be a walking pod while trading and now hes alot harder to kill, nimms fighting skills have gone up over the last couple games as well. Hunting, being hunted, and dying is part of the game. Sheltering those newer players from this is doing them a disservice. While i agree that hunting italics mercilessly is bad for the game overall so it sheltering them then when they hit vet status they become a target. You are teaching them how to op and that is great but u must also teach them how to die and handle a pod.

8. XDX map design should be a draft game with experienced active leaders.

9. My current alliance is casual so don't whine about me having a stacked alliance or all the hardcore players.
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XDemonX
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by XDemonX »

Thanks for the post azn.

Let's start early and work together to build a map that everyone can be happy with. I strongly feel next game should be a draft round with increased planet levels (do I dare say 70?).

Admin Team,

I gave you a nice starting point of a map to make. Make adjustments as you guys feel and get this thing going. Let's not wait until a week before the game starts like you do almost every game. I am willing to help in any way you guys need. If you don't need help, that is fine but don't complain you don't have the resources or time when you have people willing to help.

Draft game - Azn vs. Bouncer..... or Jouldax vs. Azn.....Orrrrrr HUGH vs. Azn
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Aendar
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by Aendar »

Why not AZN vs Demon?
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by XDemonX »

Aendar wrote:Why not AZN vs Demon?
It is possible. But I am in a transition of moving and my schedule of working 5 days a week and going out on weekends my opping times would limit a lot of players being able to join.

Would prefer to get 2 experienced players that have a bit more flexibility in their schedule.
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JettJackson
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by JettJackson »

It should be Azn vs Xdx, you both have self professed that you are the hardcore players here. Why force bouncer or jouldax or even myself even though you didn't mention me by name in last post, you did before, into leading a draft game. If we want the game to be even have the 2 people who are on the most and the most hardcore be the leaders. Its not like either of you are incapable of leading.
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