XDemonX's Desert Oasis

JettJackson
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by JettJackson »

XDemonX wrote:
Aendar wrote:@xDx

Some remarks I have after our last op. Its not meant to be some kind of criticism. I only want your opinion or strategic views on how things are possible with the changes you want:

You call out for maps where it shouldn'te be possible to bust them with a single op and do several ops to actually get to a planet. I think you mean 1 op to clear the mine field, 1 op to attack the planet and then yet another op to finish the planet bust.

So thats 3 ops. Yesterday I saw my turns get eaten away while mine sweeping and I couldn't even finish the second planet bust, I'm pretty sure most others were low on turns to. Since the 21st, or even some days before. There have been several attempts to clear the mines. Only one person in KGB getting of the lander planet can rebuild the whole mine field. So if it would be easier to put a minefield that takes more sectors to reach a planet, by the time we clear it and save up turns again for a new op two days after, the mine field is there again. So what do you suggest then?

AFAIK its so easy to lay so many mines all scattered around the planets, making it easier to put up a minefield and defend, will make planets practically unbustable because we will never reach it or we will reach it but have so low turns, we will be able to take a few shots and then have to abort. Next time the mine field is there again and in 2 days of good building, the planet will have its defenses back up again.
Aender,

As I stated before, planets have never been "unbustable". It should take more than 1 op to clear a minefield and take 2 planets (especially since there is only 3). A lot of times, with a well developed minefield you get 1 guess at which planet is the lander and usually only have turns to take 1 planet. You guys cleared our entire galaxy, killed our entire fleet and took 2 planets while arming from fed. We were building, seeding, and mining as soon as planets were habitable. So a week's worth of building, mining ect only took you guys ~30 minutes to take out.

I have been a part and led many ops where all we did the entire op was clear mines to prep to take a planet. We had quite a bit of mines down and you were able to take 2 planets. We are not going to be able to take back both planets and get enough mines down to come close to stopping you from taking 2 planets again.

You guys won't even land on planets. You all headed back to fed. Our alliance will now play from fed. Both alliances will play from fed maybe we op every once in a while to bust the empty planets.

One person cannot rebuild the minefield. It requires a lot of people to come out and seed and also requires a lot of money. As I stated before with this layout Cost of mines > benefit of mines. If I were leading all hardcore like I wouldn't mine and I would have my alliance play from fed which is what exactly you guys are doing. Again, 30 minutes is all it took for you guys to get to the lander and bust it. There is no chance for us to get enough on to even come close to defending that.


We wouldn't have been able to take 2 planets if it was late in the game and those were max level planets, they weren't however which is why we were able to. We also strategically cleared to a planet in such a way that if we had turns left we could take the 2nd rock, and as you saw with the shots we barely had enough turns to take the second rock as we were losing members quickly to lack of turns. We happened to have gotten lucky that we hit your lander by guessing due to proximity to your port. Also had we not been clearing you for the last few days we wouldn't have been able to take the second rock. It wasn't a one op one day thing that we came there, if anything we had been announcing our arrival since Sunday. It is unfortunate you all died but you guys took the risk of landing on a planet that isnt close to max without a full fleet. You have played with me before, you know I don't make that mistake, if I got opped before we were close to max I would lose a couple ships because of builders, that is it. It is a fundamental difference in style of play, you guys played very aggressively, when I have lead I am not as aggressive and from what I have seen, Holti/Jouldax aren't either. I don't want to devolve this anymore but there is more than one style to play this game, you have done fed alliances before yourself so you know how it is. If we really want to get to the crux of the issue, the planets built up too fast to allow you to land without having a full minefield in place. I mean the game just started a week and a half ago, that is too quick to get defenses in place to secure a galaxy. Once again though the 2 teams will differ on how they want to approach the game, does the map play into this as well? Maybe to a small extent but I do believe the arming isn't as short as you say it is, I did some optimal arming routes for other races and many of them are closer to 50 turns. Could it have been 60 turns, sure but I don't think that it is as huge as you make it out to be.
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by XDemonX »

JJ,

I appreciate the response but you are not grasping my point. This discussion is going in a circle. Let's just wait and see how this game plays out and then we can retouch these points.
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JettJackson
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by JettJackson »

XDemonX wrote:JJ,

I appreciate the response but you are not grasping my point. This discussion is going in a circle. Let's just wait and see how this game plays out and then we can retouch these points.

I understand, I think you are mistaking my stance on this map a bit. I never said it was the best, it was designed for more action. If it ends up being less action, then I have failed and the map design is not used again. I don't want people to mistake this as if I think this is a perfect map, there are no perfect maps. I explained my ideology of the map to you before, and we differed on whether or not it is good. Our opinions are probably never going to be the same but understand I don't act like my opinion is the best or the finite. The fact of the matter though is if the current map ends up being a failure then it will not be used again in the format as such. I'd much rather wait and see how the game plays out like you said instead of jumping to a conclusion that the map is terrible only 10 days in.
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XDemonX
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by XDemonX »

JettJackson wrote:
XDemonX wrote:JJ,

I appreciate the response but you are not grasping my point. This discussion is going in a circle. Let's just wait and see how this game plays out and then we can retouch these points.

I understand, I think you are mistaking my stance on this map a bit. I never said it was the best, it was designed for more action. If it ends up being less action, then I have failed and the map design is not used again. I don't want people to mistake this as if I think this is a perfect map, there are no perfect maps. I explained my ideology of the map to you before, and we differed on whether or not it is good. Our opinions are probably never going to be the same but understand I don't act like my opinion is the best or the finite. The fact of the matter though is if the current map ends up being a failure then it will not be used again in the format as such. I'd much rather wait and see how the game plays out like you said instead of jumping to a conclusion that the map is terrible only 10 days in.
Thank you. Well written response. I agree.
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aznplaya06
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by aznplaya06 »

wtf is the nicety and constructive discussion. this thread just got boring....i think the council would be a interesting idea but it would have to be agreed upon by the alliance leaders.i know personally i would never lead a draft game where a council picked my team
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Aendar
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by Aendar »

aznplaya06 wrote:wtf is the nicety and constructive discussion. this thread just got boring....i think the council would be a interesting idea but it would have to be agreed upon by the alliance leaders.i know personally i would never lead a draft game where a council picked my team
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by XDemonX »

Less than a month until new game. I suggest the admin team stops being lazy and starts discussing/making a new map. I will never ever figure out why you guys wait until the very last minute to make a map. Is there some huge problem that comes from making a map earlier? Even if you don't use my map that is fine.. Just produce something that didn't take more than 5 minutes of thought like the current map.
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Holti
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by Holti »

To the best of my knowledge, the map was created. I had concerns when Beta gave up the ghost (Spock suspects a hardware issue - he's working on getting a VM as a back-up).

As far as coding additional features, Astax wants to concentrate on his new code. Classic was to be set and pretty much left alone, as we have no long term coders for it. I've reminded the admins about this several times.
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by XDemonX »

Holti wrote:To the best of my knowledge, the map was created. I had concerns when Beta gave up the ghost (Spock suspects a hardware issue - he's working on getting a VM as a back-up).

As far as coding additional features, Astax wants to concentrate on his new code. Classic was to be set and pretty much left alone, as we have no long term coders for it. I've reminded the admins about this several times.
I think i misunderstood what you're saying. So a map for next game is already made? If it is, I would really appreciate the admin team post a discussion post with the layout of the map so it could be further discussed.

I understand no additional coding will be used for classic. But a new map does not require any coding as several admins have the ability to produce a map.
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Holti
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Re: XDemonX's Desert Oasis

Post by Holti »

Now that I'm not longer on a cell phone, I can type a longer message.

From what I understand from talking to Jouldax, your map was created on the Beta Server. Which is probably why they haven't posted a layout, because the map design is already here.
Then Beta had three crashes - Spock said on the third one that it was a hardware issue. The webboards and TeamSpeak are back, but beta SMR (with it's uni gen) went poof. Spock told me he would look into it today to see what the issue is.

Right now, my priority (and Spock's) is getting Astax's new code uploaded so he can finish his senior project, he only has 8 days left to get the game visible and have players fill out a survey about the new code. I will always put a person's college education far, far above a game.
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