Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

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Purify
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by Purify »

I get what Pickles is trying to do..... and he says a bunch of advanced math words so I think he is a clever dude.... but.... wouldn't the suggestion defeat the purpose of wanting to be high XP?

People strive to be #1 XP because they want a hard hitting ship... they want it to be easier to kill things and harder to be killed. Pickles idea reverses this.... lots of people get addicted to this game for the allure of a high XP warbird.... if there is no reward at the end, why bother?

To make this idea work high XP people need an extra perk... like some ship that you can only get with 250K XP or something....... but this idea is changing a lot of aspects of the game all at once.. and as we've seen before that is almost always a bad idea. To implement it they would have to be done in stages.

(I do like my idea of high XP only ship though..)
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N.ator
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by N.ator »

when attacking the attack button moves. lets make the bargin button move?
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JettJackson
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by JettJackson »

N.ator wrote:when attacking the attack button moves. lets make the bargin button move?
Actually, this is a good idea. I wouldn't mind adding this.
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Infinity
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by Infinity »

Who clicks the bargain button? Just hit Enter.

Why does PIckles want to overhaul the whole combat system instead of making few tweaks to trading?

Every suggestion here requires a year of work - building a mathematical model, changing the xp structure, changing ships, coding, testing, deleting everything and rolling back to a new mathematical model...

Why? Think simple. LIke moving bargain button. (and Im sure Poca would enjoy a little challenge when trading, cause I think his average time on port is bellow 5 seconds, which makes him quite impossible to kill)
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JettJackson
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by JettJackson »

Infinity wrote:Who clicks the bargain button? Just hit Enter.

Why does PIckles want to overhaul the whole combat system instead of making few tweaks to trading?

Every suggestion here requires a year of work - building a mathematical model, changing the xp structure, changing ships, coding, testing, deleting everything and rolling back to a new mathematical model...

Why? Think simple. LIke moving bargain button. (and Im sure Poca would enjoy a little challenge when trading, cause I think his average time on port is bellow 5 seconds, which makes him quite impossible to kill)
Exactly, lets stop overthinking this, we have 3 good ideas that could be put in place at the end of the game easily. Moving button/no psf/removal of unknown scouts. Lets try these fixes first and see if we need more.
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Beausoleil
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by Beausoleil »

Some ideas Kouga shared in chat the other day, which i support 100%:

1) Remove the "red face" on local map for all but the sector you are presently in; make people rely on the scanner more. This will add the appropriate amount of caution and delay necessary to give hunters the necessary edge on traders.
2) Get rid of nameless scouts.

I believe at least 2-3 other admins have already agreed that these would be good changes to make.
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by JettJackson »

Beausoleil wrote:Some ideas Kouga shared in chat the other day, which i support 100%:

1) Remove the "red face" on local map for all but the sector you are presently in; make people rely on the scanner more. This will add the appropriate amount of caution and delay necessary to give hunters the necessary edge on traders.
2) Get rid of nameless scouts.

I believe at least 2-3 other admins have already agreed that these would be good changes to make.
The Red face removal would benefit hunters too much imo, the nameless scouts removal is a good pick though.
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the570z
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by the570z »

Beausoleil wrote:Some ideas Kouga shared in chat the other day, which i support 100%:

1) Remove the "red face" on local map for all but the sector you are presently in; make people rely on the scanner more. This will add the appropriate amount of caution and delay necessary to give hunters the necessary edge on traders.
2) Get rid of nameless scouts.

I believe at least 2-3 other admins have already agreed that these would be good changes to make.

All of these actions would hurt hunters as much or more then the traders. I cannot possibly imagine why people have decided that making it even easier for a trader to see if somebody is hunting them would make trading harder. :D its already as easy as shooting scout and watching the hunters turns/cpl status, now they don't even have to waste the extra turns to shoot the scout.

If your serious about making trading more risky, then people need to think about doing something that effects hunters and traders differently. Allow hunter/scout ships to get a better scanner then commercial trader ships or something. But these blanket nerfings hit everybody equally and traders dont have to find anybody, anything that makes seeing more difficult will hurt hunters more then traders.

If you want to make trading more difficult then perhaps remove the ability to get max xp with relations alone, or switch to a conversation where you have to read what the guy says to you and pick out certain phrases to know how much to undercut him.
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by Page »

Beausoleil wrote:1) Remove the "red face" on local map for all but the sector you are presently in; make people rely on the scanner more. This will add the appropriate amount of caution and delay necessary to give hunters the necessary edge on traders.
This essentially makes local map useless for the most part, it'd be better to just switch to current sector and be able to move slightly faster. It could arguably benefit hunters in that they wouldn't be seen if they're waiting one out of sector ready to jump in when someone starts trading, however they cannot then chase a trader. A trader can always just watch CPL for hunters anyway, so doesn't really make trading any harder.
Beausoleil wrote:2) Get rid of nameless scouts.
Not sure how this would make trading harder at all? I'd think it makes it slightly easier in that you don't even have the risk/reward of risking leaving the scouts and saving turns or stay safe and shooting them (then again 3 turns are not worth anywhere near as much as they used to be so it's not as big a deal as it once would have been)
Beausoleil
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Re: Trading needs to be harder | Ideas

Post by Beausoleil »

Page wrote:
Beausoleil wrote:1) Remove the "red face" on local map for all but the sector you are presently in; make people rely on the scanner more. This will add the appropriate amount of caution and delay necessary to give hunters the necessary edge on traders.
This essentially makes local map useless for the most part, it'd be better to just switch to current sector and be able to move slightly faster. It could arguably benefit hunters in that they wouldn't be seen if they're waiting one out of sector ready to jump in when someone starts trading, however they cannot then chase a trader. A trader can always just watch CPL for hunters anyway, so doesn't really make trading any harder.
Don't downplay the advantage of being able to hang one sector away undetected except for a scan. In the time it takes a person to scan my sector, I'm already in their's and firing. They may not even get a scan reading on me because I'm already in their sector by the time they pull it up. Fiddling with the scan screen - or ignoring it entirely - places traders in danger for just a few seconds, which is all the time a good hunter needs. As it stands, if I'm moving about on local map, I can tell when someone is around too easily and run back to fed. If they could be one sector away and I don't know without scanning, I suddenly get paranoid.

Checking CPL takes time. Scanning sectors takes time, especially when you can't scan all of them at once (which is what the local map lets you do). The local map wouldn't be useless as you can still see friendly forces and green faces on map with you - useful for following a caravan during an op and visualizing where the nearest sectors are.
Page wrote:
Beausoleil wrote:2) Get rid of nameless scouts.
Not sure how this would make trading harder at all? I'd think it makes it slightly easier in that you don't even have the risk/reward of risking leaving the scouts and saving turns or stay safe and shooting them (then again 3 turns are not worth anywhere near as much as they used to be so it's not as big a deal as it once would have been)
I shoot every scout I see, because I don't know who it belongs to and I don't want to take the risk. If I see a scout belongs to someone I'm not worried about, either because I don't fear them as a hunter or don't see them on CPL, I leave it alone and save three turns. The hunter gets to find out some stats about when and how quickly I trade. The hunter benefits from this.
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