Making Trading harder: Take 2

[JettJackson]

what we were talking about doesn't weaken hunting at all. It does however make it less disagreeable to those being hunted. Which is important in getting them to be ok with making them more vulnerable. If hunting becomes piracy, then traders wont be so negative about being made more available. Trading Harder<>Hunting Easier. There are plenty of ways to make trading harder that do not make hunting easier or traders easy to kill. I would much prefer making trading into a more involved process over just making them slower and easier targets.

I havent figured out how to do that side of it yet, but I did figure out how to make the traders not mind being hunted so much, thus I thought it was relevant.

I go back to what I said before about trying the things that would be the easiest/quickest to implement first before doing a complete overhaul of the game. Removing the psf, and making scouts known again are 2 fixes that are quick and easy and would have an effect on hunting in a positive fashion.

[the570z]

Removing or changing the PSF would be a good idea. However, making scouts known doesnt help hunting any, if anything it would hurt it. Unknown scouts actually hurts traders because they waste turns shooting each others scouts. If traders could tell whos scouts were there, then they would just shoot the hunters and leave other traders scouts alone, so even more traders would have routes scouted which makes hunting tougher. If anything we should have it so that shooting scouts doesnt reveal whos they were, that would at least prevent traders from shooting a scout seeing that hunter in the news or cpl recently and fedding.

I would say we should reduce the size of fed, and perhaps weight the port generation routine to move routes away from fed. Having the best XP routes pass through fed space is a massive advantage and allows only ITACs and SUPER high xp cloakers to be effective hunters(those who can park in fed without tipping off traders).

[JettJackson]

Removing or changing the PSF would be a good idea. However, making scouts known doesnt help hunting any, if anything it would hurt it. Unknown scouts actually hurts traders because they waste turns shooting each others scouts. If traders could tell whos scouts were there, then they would just shoot the hunters and leave other traders scouts alone, so even more traders would have routes scouted which makes hunting tougher. If anything we should have it so that shooting scouts doesnt reveal whos they were, that would at least prevent traders from shooting a scout seeing that hunter in the news or cpl recently and fedding.

I would say we should reduce the size of fed, and perhaps weight the port generation routine to move routes away from fed. Having the best XP routes pass through fed space is a massive advantage and allows only ITACs and SUPER high xp cloakers to be effective hunters(those who can park in fed without tipping off traders).

Known scouts helps both sides. It doesn't hurt hunters as it helps hunters know who else might be hunting that area. Its a win-win change, and the unknown scouts have ran their course. I think most people would agree to this. I'm sure almost everyone here doesn't play this game to shoot scouts. Making it so that shooting scouts would not reveal their identity is too huge of a positive for hunters. Hunting needs help but it doesn't need everything to sway in their favor. There has to be some sort of balance.

Also reducing the size of fed has already been agreed upon and will be adjusted next map when I make it.

[Sufex]

what we were talking about doesn't weaken hunting at all. It does however make it less disagreeable to those being hunted. Which is important in getting them to be ok with making them more vulnerable. If hunting becomes piracy, then traders wont be so negative about being made more available. Trading Harder<>Hunting Easier. There are plenty of ways to make trading harder that do not make hunting easier or traders easy to kill. I would much prefer making trading into a more involved process over just making them slower and easier targets.

I havent figured out how to do that side of it yet, but I did figure out how to make the traders not mind being hunted so much, thus I thought it was relevant.

From what I understand, there would be no penalty for dying? At all. Because loss of turns/money is not a penalty, more of an inconvenience. If I kill someone, who cares if I ruin there day, they should learn how to trade. There is no reason anyone should die while trading with the psf in the game. The CPL and Local map combined with scouts and mines make it so you can see the hunter coming, and if you are killed it is your fault.


One way to make hunting easier, take away the examine button for hunter class ships, or all ships*. That would mean a few extra shots.


*If it were for all ships, fleet fights would go ALOT faster.

[JettJackson]

what we were talking about doesn't weaken hunting at all. It does however make it less disagreeable to those being hunted. Which is important in getting them to be ok with making them more vulnerable. If hunting becomes piracy, then traders wont be so negative about being made more available. Trading Harder<>Hunting Easier. There are plenty of ways to make trading harder that do not make hunting easier or traders easy to kill. I would much prefer making trading into a more involved process over just making them slower and easier targets.

I havent figured out how to do that side of it yet, but I did figure out how to make the traders not mind being hunted so much, thus I thought it was relevant.

From what I understand, there would be no penalty for dying? At all. Because loss of turns/money is not a penalty, more of an inconvenience. If I kill someone, who cares if I ruin there day, they should learn how to trade. There is no reason anyone should die while trading with the psf in the game. The CPL and Local map combined with scouts and mines make it so you can see the hunter coming, and if you are killed it is your fault.


One way to make hunting easier, take away the examine button for hunter class ships, or all ships*. That would mean a few extra shots.


*If it were for all ships, fleet fights would go ALOT faster.

Part 1: I agree that we should shy away from this piracy idea, its hunting to kill and get the money both, not one or the other. Traders have it easy as it is, they don't need it split half and half because that benefits them only.

Part 2: I am against any sort of autofire mechanism because there has to be some skill to the game. If it was autofire then only the fastest movers would get kills and there would be little to no skill/tactics involved.

[Sufex]

what we were talking about doesn't weaken hunting at all. It does however make it less disagreeable to those being hunted. Which is important in getting them to be ok with making them more vulnerable. If hunting becomes piracy, then traders wont be so negative about being made more available. Trading Harder<>Hunting Easier. There are plenty of ways to make trading harder that do not make hunting easier or traders easy to kill. I would much prefer making trading into a more involved process over just making them slower and easier targets.

I havent figured out how to do that side of it yet, but I did figure out how to make the traders not mind being hunted so much, thus I thought it was relevant.

From what I understand, there would be no penalty for dying? At all. Because loss of turns/money is not a penalty, more of an inconvenience. If I kill someone, who cares if I ruin there day, they should learn how to trade. There is no reason anyone should die while trading with the psf in the game. The CPL and Local map combined with scouts and mines make it so you can see the hunter coming, and if you are killed it is your fault.


One way to make hunting easier, take away the examine button for hunter class ships, or all ships*. That would mean a few extra shots.


*If it were for all ships, fleet fights would go ALOT faster.

Part 1: I agree that we should shy away from this piracy idea, its hunting to kill and get the money both, not one or the other. Traders have it easy as it is, they don't need it split half and half because that benefits them only.

Part 2: I am against any sort of autofire mechanism because there has to be some skill to the game. If it was autofire then only the fastest movers would get kills and there would be little to no skill/tactics involved.

I didn't say auto fire. This would really be using the scanner for what it should be used for. If it can detect that a ship is IS than it should be able to know where in the sector it is, thus no need to examine. Alternatively, have an examine button and an attack button, if you examine, you get a 5% acc bonus.

[JettJackson]

I didn't say auto fire. This would really be using the scanner for what it should be used for. If it can detect that a ship is IS than it should be able to know where in the sector it is, thus no need to examine. Alternatively, have an examine button and an attack button, if you examine, you get a 5% acc bonus.

Yeah I don't know if we need to go this far to the left with hunters getting help. Plus we don't need hunter class getting anymore of an advantage over warbirds than the current acc advantage it has already.

[the570z]

Will people please read before posting.... It was stated clearly that there would still be an xp loss if the hunter CHOSE not to kill the trader, just not what a pod ride costs. I suggested 10%, you could suggest an alternate amount.
There is also the fact that you completely ignored that hunters can still click the button that says kill and the trader goes home in a pod, with all standard calcs. Seriously pps, please dont create arguments against things nobody suggested, it fills the thread with junk.

As for the piracy idea, it provides hunters with a very large advantage because it gives traders an incentive to surrender. If raiding were an option, walked in on an IST and dropped a 50 stack, then the trader has a choice. Sit there and get raided, or try and run and risk a pod. Right now they might as well try and run, with piracy a really good hunter could convince traders that its better to just sit still and wait to get raided as if they try and run they will instead lose a lot more xp and their ship. Like I said, hunting in this game is based on old sea piracy but what made old sea pirates so damned effective was the fact that they killed just enough people to get ships to just surrender rather then attempt to fight or run away, killing was a tool for them, not an objective. Feel free to argue on the merits of that idea, just please stop arguing against it based on things nobody said like death would only cost money and turns...

[JettJackson]

Will people please read before posting.... It was stated clearly that there would still be an xp loss if the hunter CHOSE not to kill the trader, just not what a pod ride costs. I suggested 10%, you could suggest an alternate amount.
There is also the fact that you completely ignored that hunters can still click the button that says kill and the trader goes home in a pod, with all standard calcs. Seriously pps, please dont create arguments against things nobody suggested, it fills the thread with junk.

As for the piracy idea, it provides hunters with a very large advantage because it gives traders an incentive to surrender. If raiding were an option, walked in on an IST and dropped a 50 stack, then the trader has a choice. Sit there and get raided, or try and run and risk a pod. Right now they might as well try and run, with piracy a really good hunter could convince traders that its better to just sit still and wait to get raided as if they try and run they will instead lose a lot more xp and their ship. Like I said, hunting in this game is based on old sea piracy but what made old sea pirates so damned effective was the fact that they killed just enough people to get ships to just surrender rather then attempt to fight or run away, killing was a tool for them, not an objective. Feel free to argue on the merits of that idea, just please stop arguing against it based on things nobody said like death would only cost money and turns...

Hunters don't want to chose between killing a ship or raiding a ship, when they get both now. This is an idea that helps only traders when they have it ungodly easy right now.

[N.ator]

Making scouts unknown hurts hunters, because now the trader doesnt have to spend 3 turns and attack the force and see whos scout it is. so therefor it helps hide for who are the true hunters. but i say make the scouts shown in nuetral places

i say dont remove psf but alter it. increase turns loose a lot of cargo and armor.