An Open Letter to the SMR Community

[Jester-]

Hobbs very nice post. I agree with your sentiments. The reason we keep bringing game mechanics into it is because we're trying to bring this game to some kind of balance. This game is not all about hunters, yet that's what we try to make it.

[Holti]

Or as one of our wittier players put it "The game's name is Space Merchant, not Space Pod"

[Hobbs]

Jester, I respect that, and I think it's an important part of dealing with the situation. But it's not what I was looking for here. I want a discussion to take place that involves as many people as possible in a productive and useful process.

I'd like to see if it's possible for us to discuss ways for us to play together in a way that makes it more fun for everyone, not just newbies and not just vets. Are there people who really believe that the way we've come to play this game has created the optimum fun level? Put differently, are there people who think this is the most fun this game is ever going to get? Where are these people? How can we come up with a set of play styles and solutions that creates an environment that raises the fun level for everyone without altering game mechanics? That's what I was trying to accomplish.

Bickering about the game mechanics is important to some degree, but not what I want to do here.

Personally, I feel games are more fun when competition is placed on an equal level. They're more fun when as many people as possible can be involved and still have productive play. I want to see what people think about this idea, and brainstorm at how it may be accomplished without hard coding rules into the game. I see no need to change the game mechanics, or even play style at this point. I'm just looking for some feedback on the idea that competition breeds fun.

[Fatman]

This isn't my version of occupy SMR. Sure, I used language like that because I felt like it had contextual meaning that coincided with the point.

Comparing this to that important NBA game is silly. A more apt analogy would be pitting the Knicks versus a high school basketball team and then not intervening when the knicks completely pulverized their opponents. You wouldn't do that, it's silly. You can run around and say that we have the ability, we have the power, but in the end if the teams are stacked theres very little likelihood that anything changes.

If I play a game against someone and I know I'm better, I might be more prone to going easy on them for a bit. I'm not asking for BG to suddenly stop attacking us, but rubbing our mistakes and inadequacies into our faces is not any fun. Frankly, I don't even see how its fun for them. Four of you hop on, clear some forces, bust some galaxies, maybe walk away with a pod, and in that time you've interacted zero with any of us on a real level. Why? Because even if we do something, there is never any real danger to you or your ships. It's a joke.

As far as JJ's comment, he basically said that he didn't mean to say we screwed up, but... well we screwed up. C'mon JJ, have some balls. Either say it, or don't. Besides which, if we transfer back to the Knicks versus some high school team analogy, JJ's comments are the equivalent to him in the stands cheering the Knicks on while they knock around a bunch of high school kids and make them feel like for even trying.

This wasn't supposed to degenerate into this sort of discussion. I simply wanted to see what everyone's attitude towards playing this game was, not just JJ's, Kard's, and Jester's thought on game mechanics which are prevalent throughout any thread on here. I still haven't heard from Sergei or Orca. Do these guys just not come on here? Where's Bouncer at? I want to know why BG thinks its necessary to clear the same galaxy and bust the same planets every night? Why not let them speak for themselves?

I figure if we're going to go at it, we might as well go at it. So here goes: In truth, I really, really dislike the way JJ is handling the game mechanics discussion. He keeps saying "I'm doing it all for the newbies and activity" while pushing things like free stats, more turns, and smaller gals which directly lead to less newbies wanting to play. Hey JJ, guess what. I might as well be a newbie with how little activity I've showed in the game, and I hate that those things are in place. Sure, I like having lots of turns, but not at the expense of getting face pounded.

I guess I should have known this wouldn't have gotten anywhere. man, all I wanted to see was a few people acknowledge that this game was skewed, and that until people realize that one alliance face pounding newbies all the time is only fun for those doing the face pounding, nothing around here is going to change. Hell, at worst I was hoping to see a bunch of people banding together in some sort of loose opposition to the ruling force at the moment, but everyone is content squabbling over trivialities. Guess what guys: the game is always going to have something overpowered. It's always going to have something broken. It's the attitude of the players that dictates whether the game is fun or not, but getting face pounded isn't fun. I don't mind getting my ass handed to me if there's a chance that we might succeed at something. At the moment, however, that doesn't seem like a possibility.

Besides, this wasn't really even supposed to be a discussion about what's happening in this game. I really wanted to see whether or not these same 5-10 people who dominate every round might think it might be more fun to play differently for a chance. Hell, even if they didn't then at least we could discuss possibilities of how we could have fun at the same time. As it is, I'm tired of getting pounded over and over in this game, and it's only just begun. Unless something gives, I probably won't last much longer (just like the last times I've tried to get back into it).

Btw, JJ. You just decided to come in here and say something useless along the lines of "Well, you're newbies, you deserved to be bullied." Thanks, buddy. In fact, this about sums up every comment you've ever made about anything to do with this game. I'm glad to have you as an admin representing this game and its player base. If a referee ever said that at a sports match I was at, I'd shove his whistle up his ass.

Well said Hobbs....I couldnt agree more

[JettJackson]

Hobb's long post

Hobbs the only thing i said is that some of the problems with this current game/map are self inflicted. Beyond that it truly is one player that is the problem, other than our team playing smart and pooling our money to put the best hunter in a dc, which I wouldn't consider a problem as it is a smart move that for years alliances have been doing. The only problem is now there aren't as many elite hunters you can do this with.

[Kard]

This isn't my version of occupy SMR. Sure, I used language like that because I felt like it had contextual meaning that coincided with the point.

Comparing this to that important NBA game is silly. A more apt analogy would be pitting the Knicks versus a high school basketball team and then not intervening when the knicks completely pulverized their opponents. You wouldn't do that, it's silly. You can run around and say that we have the ability, we have the power, but in the end if the teams are stacked theres very little likelihood that anything changes.

If I play a game against someone and I know I'm better, I might be more prone to going easy on them for a bit. I'm not asking for BG to suddenly stop attacking us, but rubbing our mistakes and inadequacies into our faces is not any fun. Frankly, I don't even see how its fun for them. Four of you hop on, clear some forces, bust some galaxies, maybe walk away with a pod, and in that time you've interacted zero with any of us on a real level. Why? Because even if we do something, there is never any real danger to you or your ships. It's a joke.

As far as JJ's comment, he basically said that he didn't mean to say we screwed up, but... well we screwed up. C'mon JJ, have some balls. Either say it, or don't. Besides which, if we transfer back to the Knicks versus some high school team analogy, JJ's comments are the equivalent to him in the stands cheering the Knicks on while they knock around a bunch of high school kids and make them feel like for even trying.

This wasn't supposed to degenerate into this sort of discussion. I simply wanted to see what everyone's attitude towards playing this game was, not just JJ's, Kard's, and Jester's thought on game mechanics which are prevalent throughout any thread on here. I still haven't heard from Sergei or Orca. Do these guys just not come on here? Where's Bouncer at? I want to know why BG thinks its necessary to clear the same galaxy and bust the same planets every night? Why not let them speak for themselves?

I figure if we're going to go at it, we might as well go at it. So here goes: In truth, I really, really dislike the way JJ is handling the game mechanics discussion. He keeps saying "I'm doing it all for the newbies and activity" while pushing things like free stats, more turns, and smaller gals which directly lead to less newbies wanting to play. Hey JJ, guess what. I might as well be a newbie with how little activity I've showed in the game, and I hate that those things are in place. Sure, I like having lots of turns, but not at the expense of getting face pounded.

I guess I should have known this wouldn't have gotten anywhere. man, all I wanted to see was a few people acknowledge that this game was skewed, and that until people realize that one alliance face pounding newbies all the time is only fun for those doing the face pounding, nothing around here is going to change. Hell, at worst I was hoping to see a bunch of people banding together in some sort of loose opposition to the ruling force at the moment, but everyone is content squabbling over trivialities. Guess what guys: the game is always going to have something overpowered. It's always going to have something broken. It's the attitude of the players that dictates whether the game is fun or not, but getting face pounded isn't fun. I don't mind getting my ass handed to me if there's a chance that we might succeed at something. At the moment, however, that doesn't seem like a possibility.

Besides, this wasn't really even supposed to be a discussion about what's happening in this game. I really wanted to see whether or not these same 5-10 people who dominate every round might think it might be more fun to play differently for a chance. Hell, even if they didn't then at least we could discuss possibilities of how we could have fun at the same time. As it is, I'm tired of getting pounded over and over in this game, and it's only just begun. Unless something gives, I probably won't last much longer (just like the last times I've tried to get back into it).

Btw, JJ. You just decided to come in here and say something useless along the lines of "Well, you're newbies, you deserved to be bullied." Thanks, buddy. In fact, this about sums up every comment you've ever made about anything to do with this game. I'm glad to have you as an admin representing this game and its player base. If a referee ever said that at a sports match I was at, I'd shove his whistle up his ass.

Before I get start, I want to say I agree there is a problem, the game is skewed, and the player base and game need tweaking. With that said...

I really dont see what kind of discussion you were hoping for. Were you hoping for Sergei to come in here and apologize for getting a good ship and killing everyone? Or Orca to come in here and say "you're right, we are doing it all wrong. I will no longer play with my long time friend, which brings me alot of joy. Its better for everyone else".

Perhaps, you wanted Azool and Bouncer to come in here and say they agree the way sergei plays is a detriment to he game and that stacking the actives in their alliance is bad, so they are from now on, leaving BeerGarden.

There is no discussion to even have. You see what Im saying. At the very most, you could get a bunch of people saying, "YA, lets band together and beat these guys!". But beat who? and how? Its hard to beat people who have higher exp and use cloak, make excellent in game decisions so they dont die, and play from fed, so are never offline in open space. Unless fed is seperate from planet gals, so we can be away from them in our planet gals, while they play in racials with no targets, or they come to play in the planet gals away from fed, so we can war with them, there is no beating them. UNLESS we want to out hunt them, and all be fed hunting alliances. Which isnt impssible IMO. Slow sergei down, and kill his targets first. Guys like Jester, Rav, Canff, Edge, Kiky, and many others, can get kills too.

And lets say we band together as a community to form a team to bring them down. Now we are back to the 2 team game again. Also, who gets put on that team, and who gets left out. Who is good enough to go against the super giants and who isnt lol. Now we alianate half the player base. I know would hate to be here sitting in System Failure, only for a new alliace to form, and Im one of 6 people who didnt make the cut, and have to form a new alliance with the left overs of the other split alliances.

Lets be honest here, we already made them split up. The alliance cap was lowered to 12 vets. They got rid of over 10 vets from last round. I remember, because i was with that group for the last 5 rounds. Now Im not. No room for me, when they had to cut down to 12 vets.

All Im trying to say is, this has not degrded below what your original intention for the thread was meant for. Or at least that was not my intention. I am really just trying to express my point of view as to why this discussion has no where to go. The only things to be said are telling two friends not to play with each other, or telling them not to use the best ships, or telling them to ease up a bit so we can get on our feet, or rallying for everyone to band together. But I feel like I have just explained why none of these things are reasonable or feasable.

[JettJackson]

Kard's long post

I agree with this, and like you said previously I am not Sergei, and Bouncer/Azool aren't Orca. We are talking about one game changing player who is exceptional at what he does.

[Hobbs]

JJ, If Sergei was on his own, he wouldn't be a problem. Nor would Orca, or any of them. Do you really think Sergei would be at 36 kills or what not if he was playing by himself? Sergei is not the problem. No player is the problem by themselves. The problem is the overall elitist attitude that has caused many SMR players to lose perspective of what it meant to play in a way that was fun and challenging.

I'm not suggesting that Orca, Sergei and the rest roll in and admit fault and fix all my problems. I'm honestly curious at this point if these players really believe this is the most fun they're ever going to have playing this game. Do you people believe that?

Don't you think this game would be more fun with more competition? With a more level playing field? If so, how can we achieve that goal? How can we, as players, adjust our playing so that more people are having more fun? Are these really that difficult of questions? Are you all really having such a hard time answering this question? Where is the rest of the SMR community on these questions? That's what I want to know. If you all decide that sure, this is the best this game is going to get, that everyone is playing in a way that inspires newbies as much as possible and makes the game fun and challenging for everyone, then fine. My work here is done. I honestly don't think that's the case.

Do you all honestly feel that the DC is the reason newbies don't play this game more than a day? Newbies don't care what ship podded them. What they care about is losing the 10k credits they've managed to make in this confusing and difficult game, and instead of hopping back into a ship, they go play COD:MW3.

It doesn't matter how balanced this game is. Basketball is a balanced game, but stacking the Knicks versus a high school team is a ridiculous idea. It shouldn't take long for you to see why. It's the same principle here.

For the record, I'm not even asking anyone to start doing anything differently. I am sort of just trying to understand everyone's opinion on the topic. All I've heard so far, though, is :D about the game mechanics and JJ being a douche. No one has actually answered my questions yet. Not to be down right offensive, but are you all dense? Why won't you just answer my question. It's simple:

Do you or do you not believe this game is being played in a way that makes it as fun as possible? Why or why not? Do you believe that a more competitive game makes a more fun game? Do you believe that one sided games are not as much fun for either side? If so, do you think that is an issue with this game? If so, how can we address it?

[Holti]

From my perspective, and from what my alliance mates are telling me, the last two rounds have been rather dull. Saying that players should be able to take a pod - well, it's easy to say when you're not the person riding them. I was a solo trader in SMR off and on since 1998, I take a pod very well. But even I don't want to die daily. As I mentioned several times, newbies come on, die several times, think they suck, and go on to a game they can learn better. This behavior is basic human nature - Most people want to feel like they're accomplishing something. Only a masochist wants to be pounded in the ground.

The most fun I had, and I believe most of my alliance mates agree, was when we played Azool's map. Which makes me think that a decent map design would counter what we've seen the last two rounds. This round started strong in activity, but I think everyone can see that activity is already waning, and I lost two players today because they decided they don't want to play in the same game as Sergei because they feel they can't accomplish anything. One was pretty much a newbie that showed promise, too

[JettJackson]

JJ, If Sergei was on his own, he wouldn't be a problem. Nor would Orca, or any of them. Do you really think Sergei would be at 36 kills or what not if he was playing by himself? Sergei is not the problem. No player is the problem by themselves. The problem is the overall elitist attitude that has caused many SMR players to lose perspective of what it meant to play in a way that was fun and challenging.

I'm not suggesting that Orca, Sergei and the rest roll in and admit fault and fix all my problems. I'm honestly curious at this point if these players really believe this is the most fun they're ever going to have playing this game. Do you people believe that?

Don't you think this game would be more fun with more competition? With a more level playing field? If so, how can we achieve that goal? How can we, as players, adjust our playing so that more people are having more fun? Are these really that difficult of questions? Are you all really having such a hard time answering this question? Where is the rest of the SMR community on these questions? That's what I want to know. If you all decide that sure, this is the best this game is going to get, that everyone is playing in a way that inspires newbies as much as possible and makes the game fun and challenging for everyone, then fine. My work here is done. I honestly don't think that's the case.

Do you all honestly feel that the DC is the reason newbies don't play this game more than a day? Newbies don't care what ship podded them. What they care about is losing the 10k credits they've managed to make in this confusing and difficult game, and instead of hopping back into a ship, they go play COD:MW3.

It doesn't matter how balanced this game is. Basketball is a balanced game, but stacking the Knicks versus a high school team is a ridiculous idea. It shouldn't take long for you to see why. It's the same principle here.

For the record, I'm not even asking anyone to start doing anything differently. I am sort of just trying to understand everyone's opinion on the topic. All I've heard so far, though, is about the game mechanics and JJ being a douche. No one has actually answered my questions yet. Not to be down right offensive, but are you all dense? Why won't you just answer my question. It's simple:

Do you or do you not believe this game is being played in a way that makes it as fun as possible? Why or why not? Do you believe that a more competitive game makes a more fun game? Do you believe that one sided games are not as much fun for either side? If so, do you think that is an issue with this game? If so, how can we address it?

Hobbs what is the problem though, I mean Sergei is an exceptional hunter so we bought him a DC. If he was in Jester's alliance the same thing would have happened, and he didn't get the DC until I believe a week into the game. Also of course I would think the game would be more fun if there was a level playing field, which is why as Kard noted the alliance cap for vets went down to 12. Most of the players we took in besides the Russians were there to be recruited, because I am a good recruiter I end up being a bad guy in some eyes. I mean I even sent others to other alliances to help balance things, hense why Jobu and Rav are in SF instead of playing solo or not at all. As for your questions, these are rhetorical questions because how can you answer them, I mean do you want my alliance to play down to other alliances levels and make mistakes so the game is balanced? Should we go and die a bunch because we think its better to be cowboys instead of moving as a team? I mean you have to understand I don't like one sided fights, I was on the other side of one as recent as 2 games ago, and the game before that also. The tide changes though from time to time, I mean right now this isn't a game of long lasting dominant forces, gone are the DC and Crusaders of the world. Btw to offer up a tidbit, before this round started I was in talks with GIA to join them with serg/bouncer and a couple others but we were turned away by GIA's leaders so to say we aren't trying to balance the playing field it a bit shortsighted.