New Dawn - Initial Impressions

[JettJackson]

You mean those ones that we took back within an hour?

Great accomplishment there... or how about the 16 ppl you brought to bust a lvl 65? What happened there? oh right you got owned by 8 ppl 2-1 odds and you still lost... guess your still sore over that one.

Still taken, which is more than you can say, and that op I made a couple errors that cost us. But it has been years since I lead ops of this magnitude so obviously there would be a slip here or there. Rather I burn up all the mistakes in one op instead of a bunch of ops.

[RCK]

You mean those ones that we took back within an hour?

Great accomplishment there... or how about the 16 ppl you brought to bust a lvl 65? What happened there? oh right you got owned by 8 ppl 2-1 odds and you still lost... guess your still sore over that one.

Still taken, which is more than you can say, and that op I made a couple errors that cost us. But it has been years since I lead ops of this magnitude so obviously there would be a slip here or there. Rather I burn up all the mistakes in one op instead of a bunch of ops.

In case you missed it.. we took your planet last night

And we started that with like 6 ppl... Balls of steel and Jesters brown pants FTW

[JettJackson]

You mean those ones that we took back within an hour?

Great accomplishment there... or how about the 16 ppl you brought to bust a lvl 65? What happened there? oh right you got owned by 8 ppl 2-1 odds and you still lost... guess your still sore over that one.

Still taken, which is more than you can say, and that op I made a couple errors that cost us. But it has been years since I lead ops of this magnitude so obviously there would be a slip here or there. Rather I burn up all the mistakes in one op instead of a bunch of ops.

In case you missed it.. we took your planet last night

And we started that with like 6 ppl... Balls of steel and Jesters brown pants FTW

And 8 pods for you and a day later we have it right back

[RCK]

And 8 pods for you and a day later we have it right back

But we had fun doing it... and still look you a day to do what we did in an hour.

[JettJackson]

And 8 pods for you and a day later we have it right back

But we had fun doing it... and still look you a day to do what we did in an hour.

Some people are busy on weekends

[JettJackson]

I have an impression about this map, it has too many flaws. Everything is to spread out, no one except my alliance and occasionally crusaders will op. The turn cap is too low, the vet cap is too low. People eventually got tired of the game after having to clear NPC mines and OP on NPC planets. Opping too often on things that don't hit back got real boring. Only 2 alliances staved off the boredom, the other 2 have for all intensive purposes folded up shop. I don't think there is time to correct this map however we could learn from this map and realize that changing the way the game is played in multiple fashions all at once doesn't work out. Steady changes are much better than all encompassing changes.

[Naeblis]

I will add to JJ's thoughts with some of my own. I will fully admit i haven't been the most active, but i have been around this and similar games for many years. First off we all have to admit the player base is tiny, and the old standards need to be reevaluated. Bases and mine stacks are both seemingly to large. We should be looking at designing towards fleets of 5-7 ships rather than the large ones of the past. This means reducing port defense, base and force stack sizes to encourage activity. Bases should be max of 45-50 bl to be bustable by fewer ships and encourage opping by the smaller alliances. Ports as well should be more vulnerable, both for smaller alliances and for the traders to route build. Forces, well this could be trickier, we want to slow people down but not discourage them. A stack should be only as large as to take one full round of firing to clear. Anymore than that becomes discouraging. Generally i am not for making the game easier. To many push that route, but the size of the player base has pushed us to a state in which changes must be considered to increase player interaction. On the topic of interaction. Bots, bot planets, and bot forces are a discouraging factor. Some may think it gives more options within the game, but in reality it negates the needed player interaction. you cannot hope to succeed with this game in the future if you are not designing it to be interactive in this age of the MMOG.

[buttsack]

Well, these aren't really initial impressions because it's mid-game, but nonetheless..

I like the idea behind the 4 quadrants. I also like that we had 4 alliances claim a quadrants. It gives it a nice territorial feel that feels authentic and it has paid off with some nice battles.

I think it's a little excessive, in some aspects. 2 planet gals in each quadrant, the crazy amount of turns it costs to go from quadrant to quadrant (and other places), the random galaxies between the planet galaxies.

I think with a little tweaking we could turn this into a good map. Keep the four quadrants. 15x15 instead of 20x20. No invisible borders that filter players through the whirlpool, for lack of a better term. But keep the cluster of warps in the middle. Get rid of the galaxies inbetween racials and whirlpool. Have the racials warp from racial to racial and from racial to whirlpool. People are suggesting on the game to have warps cost less turns because there are just too many. So lets get rid of them.

No ports in whirlpool. Planet galaxies are somewhat large and have a few ports to stock planets and create a big sell. Planet galaxy warps are still somewhat far (15ish turns) from cluster so this could still mean a good "X" for your port in your galaxy and also that you would be required to buy goods in racial galaxies.

This would create a lot of extra interaction outside of necessitating opping another alliance or hunting for interaction. Racial traders and planetary traders may compete for goods. Alliances with galaxies to maintain may take to opping racial ports to in order to benefit themselves. (One caveat with this is I think racial ports you should NOT be able to change the race after destroying its defenses)

A smaller map like this would also, hopefully, eliminate bored people doing nothing but hunting NPCs because the landscape is much more interactive for player controlled ships. It kinda kills me to see people just hunting NPCs... I mean this goes against everything I love about SMR. I like shooting ships... yes... but the REAL adrenaline rush is shooting a ship with a human behind it. I find no entertainment hunting NPCs. If one happens to be in my way, yeah I'll shoot it, but that's it.

No NPC mines, or high level NPC planets. I mean I think NPCs the way they are are just not doing anything for the game. This doesn't mean I want to ditch NPCs altogether, but I would just like to see them have more of a role to play in the game instead of cannon fodder. NPCs are a major addition to this game, and should be done carefully and done when it's absolutely ready. A neat NPC idea would be like... a group of federal NPCs that actually attack you when you attack a port. Killing the NPC fleet would be another challenge to overcome before getting to do what you really want, the port. I realize this involves a ton more coding then NPCs how they are now, and that's potentially a down the road thing, but NPCs have no real value to this game. They don't play any roles.

Kinda ranting a bit, but the point is in my map there would be no NPCs. There wouldn't be a need for them how they currently are, because the map would be more interactive for humans. Same speed, same turns cap.. different map.

[JettJackson]

Well, these aren't really initial impressions because it's mid-game, but nonetheless..

I like the idea behind the 4 quadrants. I also like that we had 4 alliances claim a quadrants. It gives it a nice territorial feel that feels authentic and it has paid off with some nice battles.

I think it's a little excessive, in some aspects. 2 planet gals in each quadrant, the crazy amount of turns it costs to go from quadrant to quadrant (and other places), the random galaxies between the planet galaxies.

I think with a little tweaking we could turn this into a good map. Keep the four quadrants. 15x15 instead of 20x20. No invisible borders that filter players through the whirlpool, for lack of a better term. But keep the cluster of warps in the middle. Get rid of the galaxies inbetween racials and whirlpool. Have the racials warp from racial to racial and from racial to whirlpool. People are suggesting on the game to have warps cost less turns because there are just too many. So lets get rid of them.

No ports in whirlpool. Planet galaxies are somewhat large and have a few ports to stock planets and create a big sell. Planet galaxy warps are still somewhat far (15ish turns) from cluster so this could still mean a good "X" for your port in your galaxy and also that you would be required to buy goods in racial galaxies.

This would create a lot of extra interaction outside of necessitating opping another alliance or hunting for interaction. Racial traders and planetary traders may compete for goods. Alliances with galaxies to maintain may take to opping racial ports to in order to benefit themselves. (One caveat with this is I think racial ports you should NOT be able to change the race after destroying its defenses)

A smaller map like this would also, hopefully, eliminate bored people doing nothing but hunting NPCs because the landscape is much more interactive for player controlled ships. It kinda kills me to see people just hunting NPCs... I mean this goes against everything I love about SMR. I like shooting ships... yes... but the REAL adrenaline rush is shooting a ship with a human behind it. I find no entertainment hunting NPCs. If one happens to be in my way, yeah I'll shoot it, but that's it.

No NPC mines, or high level NPC planets. I mean I think NPCs the way they are are just not doing anything for the game. This doesn't mean I want to ditch NPCs altogether, but I would just like to see them have more of a role to play in the game instead of cannon fodder. NPCs are a major addition to this game, and should be done carefully and done when it's absolutely ready. A neat NPC idea would be like... a group of federal NPCs that actually attack you when you attack a port. Killing the NPC fleet would be another challenge to overcome before getting to do what you really want, the port. I realize this involves a ton more coding then NPCs how they are now, and that's potentially a down the road thing, but NPCs have no real value to this game. They don't play any roles.

Kinda ranting a bit, but the point is in my map there would be no NPCs. There wouldn't be a need for them how they currently are, because the map would be more interactive for humans. Same speed, same turns cap.. different map.

A few things I would disagree with here but for the most part this post is pretty spot on and a good barometer of what this map has turned into.

[Holti]

What the above posts fail to realize is simple psychology. There's little player interaction because a big chunk of the player base does not want to interact. We had a super small map last round, and with the exception of JJ's alliance, everyone stopped playing. We had a bigger map, and had enough people to form four alliances, but three of those alliances struggled with getting enough people to op. Not because of the map, not because of the turns, not because of the speed, but because they simply did not want to op. Changing the map, the speed, and the turns will not change that very critical point. Yet despite JJ's alliance being able to put together 16 people for an op, while the other three struggled to put together 7 for an op, he still felt the need to use one of my guys to clear the warps for him, as you can see in this chat log:

0116:30] <Holti> 16:29] <Loty> i just wasted their warp
01[16:30] <Holti> [16:29] <Loty> jj loaned me 7 mil
01[16:30] <Holti> [16:29] <Loty> so i could buy eos
01[16:30] <Holti> [16:29] <Loty> cause u only let me withdraw 10
01[16:30] <Holti> [16:29] <Loty> so i cleared sf warp for him
01[16:30] <Holti> I did NOT authorize this
01[16:30] <Holti> So I'm letting you know what is up
[17:19] <Jester_> wtf
01[17:20] <Holti> Yeah, I'm not happy about it either.
[17:20] <Jester_> why would they use lotus to clear our warp
01[17:20] <Holti> That's why I'm letting you know - apparently JJ called him and asked him to do that.
[17:20] <Jester_> when they've always had the clear advantage in op numbers
[17:20] <Jester_> lol


Despite my warning several hours in advance, Jester still could not put the people together to counter op. The reality is, the only way JJ can get the game he wants is if he split his alliance in half and fight each other, but that is not going to happen.

The reality is you cannot force people to interact if they don't want to. They simply move on to other games. JJ should have learned that from the last round fiasco, but he did not.