New Icons WTF

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seldum
Beta Tester
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by seldum »

Right now the main game is the beta. Lots of changes are being implemented with very little testing. I agree with you on the other points there does need to be some organization and some structure. Unfortunately MrSpock and RCK are not too present at the current time. Page would be the perfect person to head such a group however, I know his schedule is very busy but he has the knowledge and the desire to better the game.

Freon22 I will not let your hard work have been done for nothing everyone that has seen it has agreed that it is a much better and more modern look, it is the direction that the admin team supports, and it is the direction the game will head in. The problem as you clearly identified is there is no structure or organization to who is doing what and what changes are being made. It is hard to asks omeone who is volunteering their time to work on things that need to be done and not things that they merely want to do but it must be done.
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Astax
SMR Coder
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by Astax »

Sorry I didn't have time for a huge reply before I'm super busy till Spring Break.
Freon22 wrote:Well like any program be it desktop or website you have the front end and the back end. The front end crew does the display and graphics. The back end crew does the coding and database. It is very hard for one person to do both because both sides of the program takes a lot of work. Right now there is only a few of us doing smr coding and we are all doing our own thing and not working together.
I am working closely with Page all the time. We make sure we discuss any architecture changes behind the scenes. And my code always has to change to fit existing code, otherwise the branches would not merge properly. I think only one other guy is coding, but he is not taking the time to merge the branches properly. This step is the most PITA but crucial step. It involves back and forth with Page, whenever he has time, and can delay code from being merged for a month, or indefinitely if issues are not resolved. I could try to merge his stuff for him but I don't have time yet.
Freon22 wrote:As for me I stopped, I was working on RCK Players Profile display. When I seen Astax working on the database I watched to see if the updates he was doing would still fit into the new display and it does.
Of course it does. The work I did is only targeted for specifics. I modified some template files.... Since we are not 100% converted to template files yet, Page has converted some files to templates to merge my changes in (Thnx Page). Your changes would involve heavy template modification, or new template files all together.
Freon22 wrote:But when I seen work being done on the display, now I am thinking that all the work that I have done was a waste of my time. That smr is keeping it format and just changing up some colors and icons.
This is not the case. The stuff I am adding is merely cosmetic. I just found what is here now ugly as sin. In general I don't work on front end unless really required. I got pulled into doing some frontend stuff because we lacked any variety of planet display. And I just threw in few other things to liven it up. Problem with your changes as I viewed them is that they require new template files. What I add works in existing template files, that's why you might be confused about the game not changing the display. Display overhaul is significant undertaking, and right now it's not on table for me. I have 2 more patches lined up that I am trying to finish during/after Spring break. After that we can think about redoing the display more to what you envisioned, but there are otehr things on the table, too.
Freon22 wrote:Now if this is NOT true and smr is wanting to update its look and code. I think that Page, Astax, Myself, Spock, and RCK if he is available and even Azool and Curufir if they could get them back should work as a team. All of those guys can work both ends without anyone getting burnt out. Because think about it that is always what happens you get a coder work him doing it and that then everyone is telling him they don't like what he did here or there. Anyway that is the first part get a team together even if it is only two or three.
Definitely not true. The visual update is totally separate from what I am doing. I only tried to add some crap that I thought would make life easier for people and overall was a pleasant change in my eyes. Allowing players to see more information on the map without having to hover over crap is definitely a plus, I feel.

So far I only worked with Page. But I keep everyone else updated on progress of any patch I'm working on, and I try to give some previews to the general public once in a while. But most people do not visit the web board and then are surprised when :D changes.
Freon22 wrote:Next part get the players involved, if they don't want things changed then there is NO POINT. Have them visit the new login page, the new current sector page, the new players profile page. They can see them all at http://freon22.jamwick.com/IndexPage.html . Then they need to give their opinion on what they think. Now you have a coding team and you have the players being involved.
I try to update people on what is happening. I do not find anything I have done to the game to be egregious. But if people do not want anything to change... because changes scare them... I will add an option to go back to non alpha icons form the late 90s. But overall majority will agree the game needs to change.
Freon22 wrote:Last part get a team of players for beta testing. Start small get the new login page working in beta. There maybe some bugs, some of it may need to be changed. After that is working move to current sector page, I am sure it will be buggy. Then the players profile page. You do everything one step at a time when EVERYTHING is complete and tested. You move it over to the main server and have a BIG roll out game.
I feel there is not enough players to do this. Coding already takes up a lot of my time, and when I tried to get people to help beta test I realized that would easily double my workload. RCK is not around, and I hardly know anyone else who would do this. I think I rather slap Beta label on the game, as every round is a test anyway.
Freon22 wrote:So I have lay'ed it out there now it is up to the Admins, coders, and players to say if it is going to happen or not.
Definitely appreciate it Freon22. I took all your concerns to heart. When you wanted the colors moved to CSS, I actually really liked that idea. It made sense and made my life easier in the end. I try my best to make my changes compatible with all custom templates and at the same time make it so you can always modify everything related to look in CSS. In next update I will move all the icons to CSS, moving away from img tags and instead using divs and setting background-image property via CSS. That way you get even more customizability. You will be able to change the size of these elements also. This change hopefully will make it so that in the future the new interface you designed will be able to co-exist with the classic look for the nostalgia junkies.
RCK
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by RCK »

I'm still around, just little slow to get to things :)

I think it needs to be stated that Freon's work is the official goal/target and that we are planning towards that end with all these changes.

We've all agreed that the new front end is needed, and its been approved from the top down. Freon took the psd file I gave him and made it into what it is now.

What we need is one of the coders to commit the time to finishing the backend for that main home page.

Right now, this should be priority #1. As it has the most impact on the new and old players.

I know for the coders, this isnt the most exciting change, but it needs done.
Astax
SMR Coder
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by Astax »

I make no promises but I can possibly work on it as 3rd patch from now.

In mean time I can import the nice green planet icon he has as so we have a 3rd planet icon to choose from :P

Anyway like I said I'm crunch-mode till Spring Break. My Senior Design Project has a milestone presentation in two days, so I been coding like a mofo. And my Algorithms class keeps me up atleast one night a week with homework.
RCK
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by RCK »

Astax wrote:I make no promises but I can possibly work on it as 3rd patch from now.

In mean time I can import the nice green planet icon he has as so we have a 3rd planet icon to choose from :P

Anyway like I said I'm crunch-mode till Spring Break. My Senior Design Project has a milestone presentation in two days, so I been coding like a mofo. And my Algorithms class keeps me up atleast one night a week with homework.
No pressure on you alone here Astax, there are a couple other coders around ;)

Get your school work done :)
Freon22
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by Freon22 »

Astax I do not want you to misunderstand my post. I think your work is great and is needed so smr can change as time goes by. Because of you they can have more then one planet in the same sector, they can open temp warps. Moving all the styling from the html tags to the css file will make it so much better later on when someone say hey can we change this display. Also having it so the players can use the old display or the new display is a good idea.

My post was not directed at you it was directed at the Admin team and the players. I wanted to know if the Admin team and the players still wanted the new display. I got my answer, they do. So I have no problem waiting for you and Page to have the extra time to work on the new display. I did make a comment on coding team work and I do stand by that, in that post I did not say that one person could not do all the coding work. What I said is a team can do it better, faster, and without anyone getting burnt out.

You did bring up the planet icon so I want to explain a little there. We were thinking of having about ten different planet types so that each planet can someday do something different. seldum is making the planets, he would make them and I would make a little adjustment to them like changing the format and making them smaller. On planet 2 I have not cleaned it up and have not made the icon yet. seldum has many more planets that he has made. The idea is to have a variety just not the same old stale image in every sector. The icon planets are for the maps and the table display. The large planets are for the background image when you enter the sector. If you look at the new display you will see that it is made so that you can see pass the control panel of the ship. Its like you can look into space and see the stars, planets, trading ports, ship and weapons dealers.. Anyway that is kinda of the idea.

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Astax
SMR Coder
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by Astax »

Oh you can have multiple planet types in game but u still can only have one planet per sector. It proved a lot of coding and not a lot of need for it. So if you absolutely need multiple planets in sector let me know.
Freon22
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by Freon22 »

Astax wrote:u still can only have one planet per sector. It proved a lot of coding and not a lot of need for it. So if you absolutely need multiple planets in sector let me know.
No, the only reason I said anything about it is because I remember you posting about it. So one planet per sector has always been good. I can't think of any benefit to having two planets that you could not do with one.

I remember a online game called ME and in that game you could have more then one landing spots per planet. So you could end up with more then one alliance on a planet. It caused a lot of problems between players, so one planet and one landing spot is cool. :)
jouldax
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by jouldax »

Freon - just so you know, I've been trying to push your visual update for a while. Astax has done a terrific job of moving the game forward and I think we need to keep pressing. Yes, live is basically beta, but that's because most of the players can't be bothered to do testing or we'd have too small a sample size with the numbers we could get. Please keep up the good work both of you - this game needs it if it is to survive.
seldum
Beta Tester
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Re: New Icons WTF

Post by seldum »

btw, I hope you took what I had already for planets because I didnt back them up and they went poof when I lost my webhosting and subsequently formatted my hdd. If not fear not I will make more here soon.
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