Admin Table - September 12

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JettJackson
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by JettJackson »

TJ if we could base combat directly off of experience it probably would be, the problem is there would be an infinite number of outcomes based upon the experience vs a finite number of potential outcomes based upon levels thus making the code easy to use. TJ you are basing your passion on a style of play where we had 100s more players such that level races were more common and would matter more. Right now we don't have enough people for the level based cloak to make sense, as someone could essentially be untouchable with the limited number of players. Experience based at least limits that a bit as it doesn't allow for level 50 uncloakables, and usually the experience difference isn't huge day to day compared to a level difference which could require a much larger experience gain.
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XDemonX
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by XDemonX »

We are not seeing eye to eye on this.
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Grey Death
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by Grey Death »

I agree with Demon. Current systems in place use the levels as defining factors and the cloak should also be handled the same.

I do not believe it would be OP just because it was level based. It is not difficult to gain the necessary levels to be able to hunt/trade and locate another cloaker. This would also generate more competition not only in cloaked hunting but also in trading to ensure your team has at least one player able to see thru the other side's cloak.

Demon already agreed making level 50 visible to other level 50 so that argument is invalid. All other levels should be seen by the ones above but not same level IMHO.
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by JettJackson »

I guess we will leave that to a vote like a few other factors mentioned in the thread.
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jouldax
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by jouldax »

I definitely see both sides of this argument. So far, while I understand it's inconsistent, I'm still leaning to the side of exp based. Cloak is powerful enough as it is, and at higher levels, if we go back to levels based, it becomes even more so. There are very few players that trade up to really high exp levels and I don't believe any hardware should be overpowered. Other than technically jump, it's really the only thing in the game that gets more powerful the more exp you have, and it's exclusive to certain ships.
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by Incognito »

At low experience, cloak is pretty weak, no matter which method (level or exp) you choose to use. But really, once you get past lvl 27, it almost 10k between levels, which makes it pretty strong. Yes, combat is level-based, but that helps balance combat, so you don't have invincible 300k FU's running around (only semi-invincible FU's).

I say remove the turn cost for cloaking and keep it experience-based. It really doesn't make the cloak any stronger, but does remove an unnecessary punishment to cloakers


Also, Jouldax is a bum for stealing my thoughts from IRC and posting before me.
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XDemonX
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by XDemonX »

Thanks for taking the time to discuss this.

I won't keep pushing at this issue as I see you did take the time to discuss which is all I wanted. But just be careful, you are taking more stuff away from the current level system which you display level names next to the player name everywhere but realistically only use it for a hidden combat code. We did not have this problem before with cloak, again i am not sure why the changed happened in the first place. Yes is cloak is powerful, but the ships are also weakened because they have a cloak. With ships being reverted back to classic, then comes back the old DM that is the weakest top racial (except for skant).

A lot of people go WQ because they believe it is the an overpowered race, which is not true. It just happen a lot of the top players usually go WQ. (Me Azn Serg). Now we are messing around going skant and there are talks that skant shouldn't be the overpowered trading race they are now (see admin table).

We can do this with each race because each race has it's strengths.

I was actually considering doing it with Human. Before, exp effected jump drive which is another thing I liked. Now it doesnt matter if you're 0 exp or 500k exp. I was thinking of leading an alliance that opped in jump ships. You know how ;) people are going to get if I got 10 coherent people together to jump around? Especially for counter ops where I could jump on uno ect. Or have 5+ people in HBCs where I can just flood mines everywhere? There are a lot of possibilities which would lead to the same conversation that it is too powerful.

I can do this with each race. Again, I am not arguing this because I think this will be a buff to cloaking ships. Hell I haven't flew a cloaking ship in a long time even with how strong the DM is now. I truly think this is just something that makes people pay attention to levels a bit more and makes the game more fun.
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by Incognito »

XDemonX wrote: I was actually considering doing it with Human. Before, exp effected jump drive which is another thing I liked. Now it doesnt matter if you're 0 exp or 500k exp.
As far as I am aware, jump is still effected by experience (maybe not quite as much as before, but then again jump is better than it was before):
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc ... lFQVGxTNkE
High levels will misjump by fewer sectors.
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by Incognito »

As for cloak, be thankful you can still cloak in mines!

Some old threads discussing the topic. The second one is where it was originally suggested for the switch from levels to exp (as far as web board documentation goes).
http://smrcnn.smrealms.de/viewtopic.php?f=78&t=9172
http://smrcnn.smrealms.de/viewtopic.php?f=98&t=8846
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JettJackson
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Re: Admin Table - September 12

Post by JettJackson »

Alskant was overpowered before you guys went it. Especially since this admin table was done before the game went live, we had no idea you were going alskant. The fact you went it after we mentioned alskant being overpowered is merely coincidental.
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