Our Combat Training Thread

Discuss everything strategical about SMR.
Jester-
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Our Combat Training Thread

Post by Jester- »

Hope this helps, this is just some basic stuff we put together this game to help the newer players we bring in. I hope it helps someone.

Combat Training
Death Jester
3/27/2006
4:09:40 PM
I think we need to teach a lot of you the basics of combat awareness. We need to learn to all scan, enter on enemy scans, and be aware of our surroundings. If we can learn how to hunt/kill, we then can op to a better peformance level.

It is my strong belief that in order for an op to go right, we need to pod the fleet first, or atleast give them trouble. Do this, and the day and war will be ours, which I know we want. If any of you have questions on how to combat, or even just do what you do better, please let me know or post on the message board. I really just want to put our team on the standard I hold us to in my mind.

More to come soon.

-J

bogadu
3/27/2006
4:34:59 PM
Um yes, what does a what is the square root of a negative number ?

Red Cross Knight
3/27/2006
4:58:58 PM
LOL, whats the scan thing ur talking about? ;)


JettJackson
3/27/2006
5:01:27 PM
Jester makes a great point here, and if anyone ever wants to practice with me in beta just lemme know asap and ill help you practice combats

Veritas et Aequitas
3/27/2006
5:30:36 PM
I can touch my toungue to my nose

Death Jester
3/27/2006
5:37:44 PM
The scan thing is this, being always aware of your surroundings in combat. I want my people to know if they should enter or not based on their knowledge of combat, of people online, the situational things that could win us any battle.

I want us to know, hey look there is only 3 BD online, and 4 of us here. If you see an enemy scan you know to help regardless cause we would win the fight. Furthermore, everyone should be doing this on their own. Do not rely on others for information. Constant vigilance is needed while playing actively in SMR. If everyone can act on their own we would be a better combat ready allaince. That being said, we also need to know when to follow orders. If i say STAY somewhere, i mean it for strategetic or safety reasons. If i say scan me or be aware, i mean you can act on your own if you feel it is necessary. This all comes with the game and knowing how to play at a higher level.

Death Jester
3/27/2006
6:46:43 PM
More Combat Notes

When people are clearing, you know they will be hurt, especially while clearing a 2-way (IE 1949). So effectively 5 of our ships could take on atleast 8 BD ships and pod them all. This would stop an ongoing op on our galaxy. In a 3-way, i would go to say 5 could take on 7, 8 could take on 11.

Mines in sectors work like this. A 2-way sector, 35-40ish mines hit your ship. That is roughly 700-850 damage. A 3-way I believe is about 25-32/5 mines. Thats around 500+ damage. A 4way hits relatively smaller for about 10-25mines (not for sure on this, correct me on these if you know better than myself *CURU* ).

This means that you should know how much damage an oncoming fleet would take from your ships compared to their ships. I want everyone to know this information so they can know what to do if I, or someone else who knows this is not here to help.

This is also good for clearing purposes. An Eater of Souls has 1050 shields and 950 armor. What does this mean for clearing mines in a 2-way? This means that an EoS can take 2 shots into a 2-way with shields alone. Taking 800 shield dmg the first hit, and only the remaining shields the second hit (mines don't carry over from shields to armor). This also means you can pop out of your green sector in full armor (950) and pop once in and not die to mines. This means effectively one EoS can hit 3 stacks of mines in one 2-way before unoing. This is usually true for most capitol ships.

More to come later as I think of it. Remember if you have questions about ANYTHING let us know here. I want us more apt in battle. - J

Death Jester
3/27/2006
6:50:00 PM
THE GREEN SECTOR (For those who do not know what it is and it's purposes)

For those of you who are new(er) players (from tdzk IE) green sectors are as follows.

Whenever you enter a sector, you leave behind your "safe exit." This is what we call your "green sector." It will be highlited a more neonish green. When you enter a sector full of enemy mines, you can effectively "back out" of the mines using your green sector.

This is a very important thing to know and remember when clearing mines, being hunted while trading, and HUNTING OTHERS.

IE: When chasing a hurt ship or trader : Local map around, follow them a few sectors, keep following for 2-3 sectors so you can catch up with them. Then BAM lay a single, they hit it, you fire on them. Rinse and repeat.

Death Jester
3/27/2006
6:52:07 PM
Use of a green sector while clearing :

When clearing to save turns, and you know you can survive three hits or more, clear this method. Hit the mines, then hit another non-green sector to hit more mines. Then bump back to your original safe green sector where you know there is no forces. This will give you back your original green exit while hitting 3 stacks of mines without having to waste turns backing and in several times.

Red Cross Knight
3/27/2006
7:00:11 PM
Jester, u realize I was kidding about the scan thing right? ;)


Death Jester
3/27/2006
7:02:47 PM
Honestly, a lot of people do not know these things. I want a broad guide to detaile combat. Especially from people like DarkWarrior who are fast and adapt quickly to combat from previous TDZK experiences. What do people like him do not know and would be better off learning?

bogadu
3/27/2006
9:26:03 PM
when triggering fast is important

Examine, hit attack botton

Hit SPACE BAR to instantly scroll to bottom

Reclick

Death Jester
3/27/2006
10:09:51 PM
space bar, or end key works best for myself. Also if hunting, use full screen (f11 key on most computers).

Bouncer
3/27/2006
11:45:21 PM
But nooooooooo, curu has to go and change the code now in beta, so it doesn't work as well... :P

Hobbs
3/27/2006
11:50:38 PM
Triggering Fast:

I don't know the exact numbers for it, but if assuming a hypothetical situation where two players are using the same setup and level, the one who triggers the most has the advantage. Does this mean you'll win if you get three triggers and he gets one? NO. However, there is a better chance for you to get higher damage hits. So, all out triggering is never a good idea in 1v1 unless you're absolutely certain you can win, then you wanna trigger as fast as possible before that person runs. In a 1v1, you're going to be looking for who does the most damage. For instance, we assume our hypothetical same ship/level situation again. On my first shot I hit for 800 damage and he hits for 100. At this point, I would continue triggering as fast as I could because I'm most likely going to win. Also, even though I am triggering, does not mean he is not either. Make sure to check your shields/armor quickly, to make sure you're not dieing in his triggers. However, if I get hit with the 800, I'm going to want to run, UNO, and see if I can't find him again. Lastly, in a 1v1, check CPL before engaging if possible, as you don't want his friend to be sitting two sectors off and gank you.

In fleet battles, you want to trigger as fast as possible as well, in order to make sure that your side has the advantage.

Revenant
3/28/2006
2:00:29 AM
Note that if you're in a drone heavy ship then you really need to make sure you get in the 3rd or 4th shot. This is because if they kill your drones before you fire you won't have anything to shoot with. Make sure you fire first.

Death Jester
3/28/2006
4:31:43 AM
Oh yes, and for some reason ikthorne drones like to suicide to mines, but federal ult mines do not? lol.

Animal
3/28/2006
12:02:46 PM
make sure to use local a lot and know your route. Local has saved my ass a lot of times when going to our CA. for example this morning i moved local map to 2023 when i got into 2023 i seen ships in the sector under ca i went to scan it was 160 scan by the time i went back to CS Figiam from BD was in sector with me (of course i am to fast for him and got out of sector before he got a shot off on me) but if i didnt enter 2023 without local map I would have been dead.
hope this helps cupcake! :P

Red Cross Knight
3/28/2006
4:00:23 PM
Soul tried that same method on me last night animal, maybe we should throw some more mines around CA.. though i think soul jumped in.


Sivarticus Prime
3/28/2006
8:44:21 PM
That is all very helpful. And I actually didn't know the F11 thing, or the spacebar thing, so thanks guys :o)

Bouncer
3/28/2006
9:58:36 PM
maybe we should get 2-3 birds to wait at CA when miners are using it.

The Bombers
3/28/2006
10:37:20 PM
Yes, I was not aware of F11 and space bar either. Keep the tips coming.

Death Jester
4/8/2006
4:55:48 PM
BUMP, keep adding to this please.

Red Cross Knight
4/9/2006
3:51:36 PM
I got nothing :)

So i'm just bumping randomly :)


JettJackson
4/9/2006
6:21:26 PM
during an op speed and efficiancy is key. case in point last night, if we had moved a lil faster we coulda killed some BD namely the whale and maybe gotten really deep into their gal.

Bouncer
4/9/2006
7:35:47 PM
For oping, the best thing to do is win....

Raquel Darian
4/9/2006
11:52:50 PM
I learned something... when scanning

enemies give deffensive ratings numbers and
allies give offensive ratings numbers

Freddy
4/10/2006
11:14:23 AM
Im a n00b as u all know. How do u tell if an enemy scans in on u

Lence
4/10/2006
9:09:52 PM
You can't tell if you've been scanned. But theres a good chance if an enemy is within a sector or 2 of you, they've scanned you if they are not a newish

Hobbs
4/11/2006
12:59:36 AM
Really, an enemy getting a scan on you isn't a bad thing, most likely, they will already know what ship you're in, or have a general idea. However, there are certain situations where you don't want people to know how many people you have, but usually a little evasive action and some intelligence can keep them from getting an accurate hold on the amount of ships you have.

Freddy
4/11/2006
2:08:18 AM
How do u tell when u scan if a big enemy or a small enemy is in the next sector

JettJackson
4/11/2006
4:04:10 AM
by scanning the adjacent sector and checking what their scan is, anything over 130 would be big imo

Hobbs
4/11/2006
4:51:19 AM
Hrm, let me explain in more detail.

Assume for a moment that I'm in a ship that has a 16/23 rating (IKMS).

You are not in my alliance, and you are scanning me. You would scan me as 230. An IKMS is a big ship, if you're in a trader class like an IST (0/7). If you were a dev (36/21), it might not seem so big.

Really, once you know what each ship's standard rating is, you can tell which ship you're going against by the scan, merely divide the scan by 10.

Death Jester
4/11/2006
6:28:35 AM
Scanning enemy ships are relative to defense. So if it's 130 scan, its a /13 ship. Scans of friendly ships deal with offense ratings. So if an eos is friendly and a 31/20. Their friendly scan will be 31. If it was enemy it would be 200.

Hobbs
4/17/2006
10:27:38 PM
Mines are used in Space Merchant Realms to slow down opponents, to do damage to their ships, and to drain turns. Dealing with enemy mines is one of the biggest challenges facing new players.

Understanding the basic rules of how mines work and knowing what to expect when you hit mines will help you to stay safe and keep your ship from being destroyed if you stray into an enemy minefield.

Basic Rules:

* When a ship enters a sector that contains mines, the ship will hit the mines and an attack screen will be shown to that player as his guns automatically fire on the mines. The attack screen shows the number of mines that hit the ship, the damage done to the ship and the amount of damage the ship's guns did to the mines. The player who hit the mines must click the Current Sector link to view the sector again and see what is there and continue play.
* Sometimes no mines will hit a ship entering a mined sector, but the player who enters the sector will ALWAYS get an attack screen as his guns fire on the mine(s).
* Hitting mines in a sector costs 3 turns.
* Hitting mines will stop your plotted course if you were following your plot computer and you will have to re-plot to your destination.
* Hitting mines will uncloak a cloaked ship.
* Each mine that hits will do 20 damage.
* Federal ships take half damage from mines (10 damage).
* If you run into mines (you enter a sector and they attack), and you have shields, the mines will always stop when you no longer have shields.
* If you attack mines (you are already in sector, and instead of moving, you fire on the mines), and you have shields left, the damage from mines will wrap around and do armor damage too.
* You can exit a mined sector safely using the bright Green exit.

What to do when you hit mines
When you hit mines and get the attack screen, click Current Sector to see what or who is in sector with you. Often times as you fly around in your ship, you hit a single mine left behind by a trader or hunter who was recently in the area. When you look at the current sector, there are no mines left because you just shot them or they crashed against your hull. So you can then continue on to your destination.

When you enter a sector with a large number of mines, your guns will destroy some of them, some will blow up on your ship, and the rest will be left sitting in the sector untouched. The current sector view will reveal the mines that are left and you will see your choices of exits. Back out of a mined sector the way you came in using the bright GREEN exit, and you will move safely. If you try going out using a non-green exit, your ship does not move and you hit the remaining mines in the sector. This can be useful, however, because using the non-green exit "clears the way" in that direction and that exit then becomes bright green and thus safe to move toward. If your ship can withstand the damage of doing this you can pass through a mined sector in this way.

Remember: the Green exit is always the safe way out of a mined sector, and clicking a non-green exit turns that exit into the new Green exit.

Hobbs
4/17/2006
10:27:52 PM
*Copied from the GP.

Death Jester
4/19/2006
8:40:21 PM
Local map chasing of prey or escaping -

When chasing an enemy, use local map for chasing efficiency. Keep following them for long as it takes, when you catch up try to lay a single mine and finish them off, or if it is a particular fast prey, follow them until you hit a 2-way, lay a single, move to the next sector, lay another single then continue to own.

Fleeing danger by local map -

Use local map in retrospect to also flee with efficiency. If trouble is nearby use local map to run in the opposite direction of your enemy. If they are following you lay singles if possible, and don't go a certain path. If possible run forwards then back the way you came as they will not expect something like reverse tactics.

Bouncer
4/19/2006
9:00:15 PM
And if you are trading and someone chases you, don't take the quickest way back to fed, the hunter might have it mined (mainly true with gheng).

Death Jester
4/28/2006
7:14:58 AM
BUMP RE READ THIS GUYS

Death Jester
5/3/2006
5:08:57 PM
Guys I think some of you still need to review this. In my opinion everyone should look at this and know how to do this and implement it into their gameplay.

Death Jester
5/3/2006
5:12:10 PM
Another for example combat fleet situation

The enemy fleet is coming into the galaxy. They have 10 ships, we have 7. Our fleet consists of a few motherships, a few EoS and a HBC.

The enemy fleet clears into 2705, and starts to clear 2706.

In the mean time our fleet should be on the other side of the warp at 2703 area waiting for them to move into 2706 to start clearing elsewhere(this could work vice versa as well).

After all ships(or all but 1 or 2) are in 2706 you make your move. You have to make sure everyone is filled up on mines(take from current stacks if you have to). Rush into 2705 and then rush directly into the 2-way at 1949 and drop ALL YOUR MINES. If you have time backfill from 1948 for full stacks. Now either they rush in or wait, but either way you have them where you wanted and probably 10 kills coming your way. More to come - J

Death Jester
5/3/2006
5:14:42 PM
The reason why this would work so effectively is because they take massive amounts of damage from the mines in 1949. Even with fewer numbers you will rock their world because they all will be missing around 800 sheilds. Even if they hit 25mines in a two it's over 400 damage. This is a very very usefull tool in fleet situations. Go behind and trap them with no way out. This way they have to fight, they have no other option. This would also work for 4v6 etc. Or even on even numbers you should use these kinds of tactics. Go behind and hit them with a surprise in a bottleneck near an uno, anything can and will work.

Death Jester
5/9/2006
9:58:25 PM
bogadu
5/9/2006
8:48:33 PM
When you call someone out for help, and they come, dont be somewhere else and leave them out there. Dont leave that immediate area. When they say a sector #, you go. You dont scan and and move somewhere else if you see nothing. The odds are, there is a reason that person called you to that specific sector. The odds are that person NEEDS YOU at that specific sector. AAAANNNDDD IF YOU ARE ONLY 2 sectors out, you go there. . . . especially when you are waiting on the enemy and it is right next to your warp.
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XDemonX
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Post by XDemonX »

Could you read through that jest and take out all the stuff that has nothing to do with helping players
This is a beat, you just can't touch.....
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Jester-
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Re: Our Combat Training Thread

Post by Jester- »

I could, but I won't. Also, most of this stuff here is still valid.
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Infinity
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Re: Our Combat Training Thread

Post by Infinity »

I have this thread somewhere :P and I always wanted to reply to you on this one:
Death Jester
3/28/2006
4:31:43 AM
Oh yes, and for some reason ikthorne drones like to suicide to mines, but federal ult mines do not? lol.
FU loses them too, only most times seven guns kill the stack before forces get to shooting drones, cause drones shoot last.
Use The Force(s)!
Jester-
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Re: Our Combat Training Thread

Post by Jester- »

Infinity wrote:I have this thread somewhere :P and I always wanted to reply to you on this one:
Death Jester
3/28/2006
4:31:43 AM
Oh yes, and for some reason ikthorne drones like to suicide to mines, but federal ult mines do not? lol.
FU loses them too, only most times seven guns kill the stack before forces get to shooting drones, cause drones shoot last.
And thankfully now that is irrelevant as you can turn off suiciding *yay*
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Re: Our Combat Training Thread

Post by RCK »

Wow talk about digging up old topics :P
Jester-
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Re: Our Combat Training Thread

Post by Jester- »

This thread was already on top :) Anyways I was looking it up for my newbies :P
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JettJackson
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Re: Our Combat Training Thread

Post by JettJackson »

Jester- wrote:
And thankfully now that is irrelevant as you can turn off suiciding *yay*
Not sure why that option is even in the game, they should suicide no matter what, this would put a balance on ikky some too.
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Jester-
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Re: Our Combat Training Thread

Post by Jester- »

What are you talking about? It's a stupid feature. Ikky doesn't need balancing, they're fine.
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JettJackson
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Re: Our Combat Training Thread

Post by JettJackson »

Jester- wrote:What are you talking about? It's a stupid feature. Ikky doesn't need balancing, they're fine.
You think MS and ITACs should be able to clear? I don't.
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