We want the code

[Edgecrusher]

Okay, I've been asking around why on earth we, as a beta-team, do not know what the code is like, and it seems most agree with me, so let's throw it out there.

When 1.5 started, Azool was very secretive about the game and its exact mechanics. It was fun at first, discovering new things, but I think Azool forgot that this is beta: With every bug I run into I have to ask myself is this a bug or a game feature, because without knowing what the game is supposed to be like, there is no way to tell. The decline of the game, i think, has been partly due to this fact.

Now I'm on the beta-team. I doubt we have a mission statement, but as far as I'm concerned, the beta-team takes a leading role in the development of the game from a beta version to an alpha version. Yet we do not know the code. I think that is ridiculous. I need to understand the game mechanics to discuss tweaking them and as long as there is no one available who gives me that information, I should at least be allowed to retrieve it myself. Even Page doesn't fully understand the entire code, ad he has other things on his mind then to be constantly explaining things to us.

I can understand that we don't want to spread around the code, but I'm a member of the bloody beta-team. I was asked to and allowed to join the beta-team because people trust me to do a good job.

And then there is another argument: Page is way too busy to code every bug we find and every suggestion we make. We can make his work a whole lot easier by at least pointing out to him where he needs to make a change. Which in turn would mean a large increase in our development power.

So let me put it very forcefully once again: I want the beta-team to be given a copy of the game code (of course under the condition that they keep it for themselves) or I don't see how they can properly do their jobs.

Oh, and to counter that argument before it is given: I have a phd in computer science, so don't go telling me the code is too complicated for me anyway.

[Blade]

I agree with this statement

[Page]

What I've always found odd is how live so often gets called Alpha, when alpha testing actually comes before beta =S
Besides that I don't mind select other people having the code (ones who aren't going to try abusing it), however I would like Azool to agree with it first.

[Freon22]

You asking for the code is kinda vague, by code are you asking for the complete HTML and PHP code? If that is what you are asking for it would be crazy for Spock to release the full code. You don't need codes like the database connection strings, database table and field names, or all the methods or do they call them functions and sub's in PHP. You can get the HTML and most of the javascript from viewing source in your browser. The rest of the javascript you can get by forcing that file to download. Now as far as formulas yes beta team does need to know all the formulas. How else can you tell if something is working right if you don't know how it should work.

When I am on the beta server I am normally looking for ways to attack it. I try to create database error so it would give me table and field names. I then try to use that information to do mySQL injection attacks I also try cross-site scripting attacks. Now I am not a real hacker but with the users knowing more about programming these days someone needs to look for weakness and report them. When Azool first started coding SMR 1.5 he allowed me to do the attacking on the beta server only. If I had a copy of all the codes, well you know what I could do with that information.

btw: I get alot of my information from the bug forum, players post complete errors that sometimes includes database table names and field names. A little while back I learned that I could attack Bob's site. I then reported the weakness to him, as of today I have not tryed to attack Baalzamon site but since his site like Bobs is SMR related I will be making an attack soon. If I find a weakness I will of course report any weakness I find to him.

Edit: Not sure if some of you knows how serious a vulnerability can be. If I fould a way to add data to the database I could then add javascript into a field in the database. How when ever someone pulls that data from the database they will be getting the javascript along with it. I could redrect them to another site I could do alot of bad things to them. So to release the full code is the allow others to look for weakness in the code.

[Edgecrusher]

I am not talking about the formulas, I am talking about the game mechanisms. For example, how does excavating work? I need the php code to figure it out, or at least that is the fastest way. I can do a lot in the ways you describe, but I am a member of the beta-team, not some burglar stealing bits and pieces of code.

Of course we can do our work if page is available 24/7 to explain parts of the game to us, but he isn't (thankfully for him).

And I hear people (including Spock himself) sying it would be stupid to give out the code to the beta-team, but I am not hearing a single argument. Are we not trusted? Are people afraid we will abuse knowledge obtained from the code? Are people afraid we will run off and start a game of our own? Well, we didn't pay for a new server to then walk out and if you don't trust me then by all means ask me to leave the beta team.

Furthermore, what does Spock have to do with it? This code has been created by Azool and it is for him to release it. Or am I wrong here?

[Freon22]

And I hear people (including Spock himself) sying it would be stupid to give out the code to the beta-team, but I am not hearing a single argument. Are we not trusted? Are people afraid we will abuse knowledge obtained from the code? Are people afraid we will run off and start a game of our own? Well, we didn't pay for a new server to then walk out and if you don't trust me then by all means ask me to leave the beta team.

Furthermore, what does Spock have to do with it? This code has been created by Azool and it is for him to release it. Or am I wrong here?

I don't want to turn this thread into anything bad and I don't have any say in "if or who may or may not get the PHP game codes" I have also seen you in SMR for many years and I do feel that you are trustworthy person. That being said I too have been with SMR for many years, have donated over $700.00 dollars to SMR, and also a member of beta. I feel I am trustworthy also and would never do anything that would hurt SMR.

I feel that when it comes to the base PHP code it is not about who or who is not trustworthy it is about Security. If the codes are handed out they are no longer secure. As far as Spock and Azool I don't know what type if any agreement they have. If Azool writes some code then he holds the copyright to that code if he has not released his rights to Spock in some written form. I know that SMR 1.5 is hosted on a server owned by Spock as far as who owns the code your guess is as good anyone elses.

[Page]

In terms of security, I try to keep it as secure as I can, however I'm sure there's plenty from Azool's code (I found at least a few, although they weren't critical) and from places where I don't know every single bit of Azool's code since it does tend to weave all over the place at times. However if people were to be able to check in more targetted ways for vulnerabilities then they could point them out/suggest fixes (with risks reduced by only allowing trusted people).

Also it's functions in php (if it's in an object then it's called a method - but you still have to use the function keyword to define it)

[Edgecrusher]

Well, I did not mean in any way to make this something bad. It's not an issue of trusting me. I am here to help make the game better, as we all are. If that means I am not one of the selected few that get to look at the code, that's okay with me.

The point is, there should be a core around Page that has knowledge of the code and that is trusted by Spock, Azool or God if neccesary. Not only to have more developing power for the game, but also for the sake of the continuity of the game. I for whatever reason Page is unable to deal with the game for a time, the game as it currently is will die.

Perhaps the title of this thread would better be "Some of us should have the code".

[Baalzamon]

I, personally, am indifferent. I understand the reasons for wanting the code released to some people who can help out, and I also understand the reasons for keeping the code closely guarded (who would want their work to be so easily copied? even the smallest risk would drive me nuts if I had written it). I would personally not understand much of anything in the code (i've looked at the source pages for fun every once in a while, and even that confuses me).

At the same time, I think that it may not be a bad idea overall. Let Spock come in and talk to some people who are interested in it. If he's very worried about the code being stolen, he could go so far as to have a written agreement disclosing full rights of SMR and SMR code to himself/azool/whoever owns the code.

I don't know how plausible this is, given the fact that Page has been just about our sole coder since the spring, and just the other day received access to live, and when he was made a coder, didn't even have access to the SMR code for a while

[Blade]

Fair enough about copying the code, but why would we, if we wanted tom we would of years ago, and lets not forget where the code came from