Movement SC Cost

[Baalzamon]

ya, pretty sure its the same game....weird green screen, no graphics, smack talking vets?

Steps:
1)Use either IST or ATM
2)Trade mediocre routes
3)Don't trade galaxies at opposite sides of the universe
4)Trade a little at a time throughout the day

There you go, now you too, can trade all over.

[Freon22]

Something needs to change. I know ships cost more but last night I joined the game. Inside of an hour and half I made over 6 million well I should say I have 6 million after upgrading my Newbie Vessal. Now if I was in an alliance I would have been put into a PSF and would have paid for it plus made a ridicules amount of money and exper in that 1.5 hour.

Its funny the way thing swing back and forth in SMR. If something needs changing its done way overboard. Then when its found that the change doesn't work it is changed way overboard the other way. I brough up the too much money sometime ago and was told that the alliances needs all this money. But what is the side effects of all this money in the game? Large mine fields, why not you have a few billion in the bank. A lot more early hunters at game start. People bing bored because turn management, money management had been removed.

So ajust the cost to move, or the cost of repairs, or lower the profits and exper gain. And not by alot no point in swings thing to far the other way again. If a little ajustment is not enough then ajust a little more each time until you get it balanced.

Anyway this is my 2 cents.

[Page]

When I used to trade properly I was first to 100k quite a few games in a row, and generally top 3 (normally beaten by a hunter and possibly people with a route), and I know for sure that if I were to have regularly switched galaxies I wouldn't have stood a chance to even be in the top 10 I expect. Yes it could be done, but you'd screw yourself over, now it's commonplace and doesn't matter much at all.

[JettJackson]

if we are basing the movement change on trading exp, then lower trading exp dont screw up movement for everything else, that just isnt rational

[Kahless_]

Baalz - i think im now getting an insight into why you never had #1 xp

It took ball park 20 turns? to change galaxies. Thats 1/10th of your daily IST turns, 1/8th? your daily ATM turns. No one in their right mind would use those turns to travel between galaxies when they only have enough turns as it is to drain 2 3x's per day. It was the trade off you had to make. Take the risk of sticking in the 1 spot to get maximum gains and risk being killed because of it OR lose potential xp by changing galaxy, but be safer because of it..

I hate how little people have to think about turn conservation at the moment. You just shouldnt be able to do as much as you are currently able to do. I'm sorry, thats just the way it is..

[Kahless_]

No JJ - its not about trading xp. The trading xp is balanced...It the amount of trading you are able to do that is the problem..


Also the amount of mining you are able to do..its too high..
About the only thing thats close to right is the amount of SC used when guns shoot.

I just dont get it. Some of us here remember playing an entire day with no more than 100 turns and having an absolute blast and getting many many kills..Now people are complaining about their daily turns being reduced from infinity to infinity/2? Guess what..thats still infinity...

You guys have been spoiled..You expect to be able to do everything every day..well guess what..a good game doesnt let you do everything every day..it encourages you to choose 1 avenue and excel at that..thats what makes a good game..thats what we dont have.

[Infinity]

Ok, did some math...

Miners get to mine half of what they can in 200SC. In the case of my mine-freakish miner that carries 500 mines, that's a drop (for same SC) from 19 sectors with 17 seeds and average stack size of 100 (ours are tho probably even bigger on average), to 9 and a half sectors, or if you wish from 33k mines in 66 round trips, for average round trip to CA of 30 sectors (15+15, it's current situation with our galaxy, warp cost counted in) to 16.5k mines in 33 round trips. Still A LOT of mines, yes.

Clearers would have to use additional 0.2 SC if they don't bump IS per stack for clearing, meaning a 4% to 6% increase of SC cost.

Oppers... say, midsized planet no pods taken, uno is 15-20 sectors from the planet, so round trip goes from 3 to 4 SC, or for 20 shots that's increase of 60 to 80 SC for whole op, so guys will actually have repairs after the op, which isn't always the case now (actually, 5 people went to trade after we took Edge's planet, which wasn't small, so this was unbalanced anyway. I don't think one should be able to do a 2hr big op and then make 80k xp and all in one day). With ER used and some credits, not too bad, triggers get a bit higher on repairs, but if NPCs are used triggers are rotated. If mobile-uno ship ever gets coded in, this wouldn't make a huge difference. Now, opping on a bigger target with mines to be cleared would need more careful preparation of the op, more repair credits for whole fleet at the time op begins etc. Since all of that already exist in the game I see no problem here.

Hunting... what hunter uses his SC on is scouting and shooting. So, laying scouts and maintaining the scout network would cost twice as much, but seeing hunter ships are usually pretty fast, well, a little of turn management won't hurt. I find ridiculous that I can go search for someone over 3 galaxies for 20-30 SC anyway.

Trading...

Example #1 is aggressive trader that makes ~70-80k guaranteed (that would mean without trading offers) every day. I took some obvious examples from the game, that is from my alliance. So routes used for the example are EE's lux/narcs route, then 3557/4197 narcs one way, and two EG one way routes, one to 4969 and the other to that skant EG port, I think 5093, from 2494 and 2987 sellers.
With current movement cost, it take about 260SC to drain those, ensuring lots of cash and xp. With movement cost doubled, moving would cost another 105SC, raising total SC cost to 365SC which is 40% increase. Generally, my zealous Thev in PSF would gain much less xp (to no xp) on last two routes he trades, money would suffer smaller difference. One thing I left out of this is moving between routes, which adds a bit more SC.

Example #2 is trader in racial galaxies. With average route being 14 sectors and with two-way trading, a PSF with about 1k holds could drain 3 of these routes in 225SC. Increase in this case due to SC cost doubled would be only 34SC which is 15% increase, or about round and a half less trading.

Excavating... searching for asteroids would suffer... meaning cost of total repairs for a usual excavation session would go up, I'd like Erke to say something on this. Tho, what I see is trading less to excavate more, meaning we wouldn't have a spooky with all alien techs after month and a half, which I still consider a good thing, the guy's just way too overpowered. Also, in situation of having Nyx Shade as a trade ship, gaining xp after gaining alien techs shouldn't be that hard.

You may or may not agree with me, but biggest impact of this change goes to trading, lessening the difference between guys that trade different routes, also one way routes go closer to their usual purpose, and that's making money and not xp (as it used to be in SMR1), while the not so aggressive guys trading smaller racial routes wouldn't be falling down behind big guys as much as it's the case now.

Note: used 4SC as average trade cost, all values rounded up to integer numbers. All distance examples take from the current universe map.

Edited to add content.

[Infinity]

Somehow missed Kah's post... Kah, my point exactly, thank you.

[Wizard64]

Even before the math it sounded like a good idea. SMR historically has been a game that has required a lot of thought as to how you wanted to spend your turns and how to do it in the most efficient way. While the game is changing and people want to be able to play more, its still important to limit it enough that they actually have to think about how they move and what they plan on doing for the day.

Right now it costs between 0 and .2 SC to move(unless it was changed). Raising the cost to .2 wouldn't make a huge difference considering trading/attacking is what takes the majority of SC atm anyways(kiky did the math rather well so I won't post mine right now). Doubling SC movement costs would just require people to be a little bit more watchful of how they use it to be more efficient with it. IE plot their trade patterns to use the least movement between routes as possible.

You may or may not agree with me, but biggest impact of this change goes to trading, lessening the difference between guys that trade different routes, also one way routes go closer to their usual purpose, and that's making money and not xp (as it used to be in SMR1), while the not so aggressive guys trading smaller racial routes wouldn't be falling down behind big guys as much as it's the case now.

While I was trading I could make 80k a day easily and I'd trade 5-6 galaxies(Most of them racials and rarely using big cross galaxy routes, so the difference between big exp you get from massive routes and the racials isn't as big as you might think right now) without doing them in an SC efficient order. Even after doubling movement costs for SC I don't think it would reduce the exp made each day by a ton, it would just change the dynamics in terms of which routes would be the most efficient to trade.
As kiky's math shows, slightly smaller routes wouldn't take as big of a hit. Meaning it would be slightly more of a choice between trading for big cash(by trading the long routes) or trading for more exp(by trading smaller routes). The cash inflow wouldn't suffer a ton since people could still use leftover SC after trading for exp to trade for cash since diminishing returns doesn't apply to cash but it might require them to choose doing that over doing something else like excavating or mining.

[Infinity]

Right now it costs between 0 and .2 SC to move(unless it was changed).

Just to clarify, it's a random (maybe not completely random, there's probably a formula, which averages at 0.1 per sector) value between 0 and .2SC, it will become a random value between 0 and 0.4, averaging on 0.2.

If you already traded two-way top xp routes, it won't make some huge difference for you, you could tho take your usual trade routes and calculate how much SC you would need more, and when would you stop trading, I am curious