Movement SC Cost

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Kahless_
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by Kahless_ »

Just a few things in your post there. You have highlighted a few issues which are cause/effect things.

With hunting, im getting frustrated with the things about hunting that are being raised. The fact you are worried about not being able to "Search" for someone is b.s. You shouldn't be running around looking for targets. The reason you are having to do this is because scouts don't last and the reason why a 0.5 movement cost would seem alot is because you would have to lay scouts so often you would use all your SC scouting and none shooting. Yes, this is bad. But, imagine when we fix scouts so they last the 24 hours they are meant to (I believe that we have you to blame for the way they are kiky? :P jk ).

But when scouts last, less turns spent scouting, more turns to shoot. So if this is the case, to truely balance things, moving should cost more.

And kiky, about excavating, it does only take 1 SC to excavate. Selling the goods is called trading..

Alot of the sentiments building here too suggest to me that the universes we are playing in now are too big..

And kiky, can you please read my post..Your 40 sector rounds trip might take more SC, but the trades at either end might cost less at each end..
Scouting will take more turns, but you will do it less often (once per day unless someone kills your scout), but shooting will take less..

I'm not trying to change the amount of xp we make or the amount of stuff we get to do per day, i merely think a shift in balance needs to occur. More of some activities and less of others. Less moving, MORE trading. Less moving, MORE shooting. But yes, if your not clever it could result in less trading and less shooting. If implemented properly it shouldn't actually change the amount of xp or cash your make per day, it will just adjust the way you use your SC to make those gains.
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Infinity
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by Infinity »

(I believe that we have you to blame for the way they are kiky? :P jk ).
No, it's Blade's fault cause he whined about the mines in neutrals, now I can't protect my galaxy properly or my route. Issue with scouts not lasting longer is coder's fault. I just did what I was told to.

This doesn't mean anything to you::
0.5... DC speed is 6CRPH, that's 30 turns per hour for 0.2 per sector, with 0.5 it would be 12 turns per hour on a map that's twice the size we played when DC had 15TPH.
I give up.
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JettJackson
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by JettJackson »

movement now is fine, if its raised more i will not be pleased, people need to realize this isnt 1.0.
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Page
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by Page »

Infinity wrote:
(I believe that we have you to blame for the way they are kiky? :P jk ).
No, it's Blade's fault cause he whined about the mines in neutrals, now I can't protect my galaxy properly or my route. Issue with scouts not lasting longer is coder's fault. I just did what I was told to.

This doesn't mean anything to you::
0.5... DC speed is 6CRPH, that's 30 turns per hour for 0.2 per sector, with 0.5 it would be 12 turns per hour on a map that's twice the size we played when DC had 15TPH.
I give up.
I'd ALREADY stated multiple times how scouts interacted with the times set.. I had changed them and was halfway through uploading the changed versions when my PC died and hasn't been back since. I'm assuming gal was recreated in live rather than copied but with the same times used again? Sorry that the same mistake was made twice. I did speak to Spock about changing it but nothing has come of that, I'll see about trying again but I thought I'd made it pretty damn clear what would happen to scouts along with seeing it in the version made in beta.
Kahless_
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by Kahless_ »

Infinity wrote:
This doesn't mean anything to you::
0.5... DC speed is 6CRPH, that's 30 turns per hour for 0.2 per sector, with 0.5 it would be 12 turns per hour on a map that's twice the size we played when DC had 15TPH.
I give up.
I think its you that is misunderstanding how easy we have it at the moment. Comparing CPRH to turns per hour is stupid. Just dumb. You didn't get an entire days worth of turns granted to you after 19 hours in the old game..So constant comparisons like this are stupid.

Each day in a DC with 0.2 sector moves, you get to move 4000 sectors before your ship becomes un-usable for shooting and such..4000......4000...Every 19/20 hours you get to do this 4000 moves again. Thats alot of movement..I don't truely see how you can then compare getting 12 "turns per hour" to "15 turns per hour"..because in my book 4000 sectors is more like 200 "turns per hour".....
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Infinity
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by Infinity »

4k sectors is 800SC.. you don't move for 800SC, ever.
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Kahless_
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by Kahless_ »

So how much SC do you use?

I remember using an average of 300 past repairs a day. So thats 400-500 SC (Emergency repairs plus bonus repair credit)..So thats 2000-2500..100-125 turns per hour..next arguement...
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Page
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by Page »

Yay, we can move around all day long and do absolutely nothing else.. The moment you try to trade or shoot it eats SC, also going to repair uses up a chunk of that sector count (found the games I played it was generally around 15-20 sectors to an outpost, then have to come back). If you want to keep your damage etc optimal you have to repair a lot more often in small amounts.

Trading costs on average 4.5SC a time I think. That's around 89 turns in a day (with most of those turns being sub-optimal) so let's say around 55 turns per day. That works out as 2.3tph. Now admittedly the actual trade part isn't the only bit you need to do. So let's say a 10 sector route, that's 10moves and 2 trades, which is around 2+9 = 11 SC for equivalent 12 old turns. So in a day 400 / 11 = 36.36. 36.36*12 = 436.36 turns in a day, 18tph, with a lot of those being sub-optimal it works out to around 9tph for a ship that can trade up to 300 past repairs. That's not a particularly high number imo, along with the fact that there is meant to be more play.

Combat I believe takes a lot more turns for shooting (don't know the actual amount) so it does tend to disadvantage good hunters that have the chance to take shots.
Whereas the bad ones just run around at 0.2 per sector and never have to worry about losing turns from shooting :P

My opinion is that the SC cost for moving *could* go up to a max of 0.3 but would need reductions in cost to shoot/trade (and probably also a reduction in universe size).
Kahless_
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by Kahless_ »

Yes page - if you read my post, the suggestion was to lower the attack and trade costs..SHIFT THE BALANCE SO YOU HAVE MORE TURNS FOR SHOOTING AND TRADING BUT LESS TURNS FOR MOVING BUT THE SAME AMOUNT OF TURNS OVERALL. I realise how precious turns are to all you people who have been spoiled with too many and wouldnt dream of taking them away...

To everyone, i am not an idiot, i am not just saying "Moving is tooooooo cheap, everything is toooooooo cheap", I'm saying movement is tooooooo cheap IN RELATION TO OTHER ACTIONS. Christ..a bunch of retarted muppets who need to learn to read....

I'll rehash

Trading = 10-30 times more SC used for 1 trade than to move 1 sector
Shooting = 20-30 times more SC used for 1 attack than to move 1 sector

Everyone i think agrees shooting takes too much SC, some agree trading takes too much SC. The problem is, the solution everyone is/will suggest is just drop the amount of SC its takes per trade/shot. Then we will run into the problem that we are now able to do tooo much.

For mind, i envision the numbers for balance being more like

Trading should = 3-5ish times the SC it takes to move
Shooting should = 5-10ish times the SC it takes to move

I just suggested increasing moving costs IF changes were made to reduce the cost of shooting BECAUSE IF you leave movement costs as they are, BUT drop shooting and trading costs YOU END UP BEING ABLE TO DO TOO MUCH. You end up with hunters who run to every corner of the universe, dont use scouts and just search for a trader until they stumble across them. I think by increasing movement costs, but decreasing shooting costs you are going to reward people who are good hunters, people who use the tools they have, scouts, message boards, notepad and smarts..If you decrease shooting costs but leave movement costs as is, you are rewarding the people who suck at hunting and simply MGU the top routes and run between them looking for pesky traders..I'd hate for that to happen..Already enough people pretending to be "hunters", don't need any more..

Sorry for capitalisation, but given no one has really read anything yet, i figured you guys needed help..
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Freon22
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Re: Movement SC Cost

Post by Freon22 »

You don't have to talk down to everyone. I think everyone knows what you have been saying. I believe the whole idea of SC in the first place was to allow players to play as long as they like. This is why the different SC cost for different actions, moving being the cheapest. Because that is the one action that gets you nothing but infor. If you trade you get something so it cost more, if you attack someone you get something so it cost more, ....... so on.

I understand what you are saying but I think the right approach is in the repairs. Maybe sometype of a limit to repairs or something along those lines.
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