Changes to mines

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the570z
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Changes to mines

Post by the570z »

Mining is currently one of the most boring jobs in the game and mines themselves are really mostly pointless as they stand no chance of killing anybody if they are paying attention. So what I was thinking is we could shift that around some. Basically switch to hunter/trader mines(Just there to slow somebody down/decloak, essentially what we have now but much shorter lifespan) and anti-ship mines. The anti ship mines would be layed by the minesweeper class ships(can figure out racial differences later). Anti ship mines would do heavy damage, probably around 500 and have very little or no chance at hitting ships below mid racial in size. Anti-ship mines would not have a count or a requirement of players to seed but would cost 500k per sector per level. There would be 3 levels of mines, light(low chance of hitting even big ships but can go undetected easier so possibility of killing ships who fly through often). Medium is better chance but only one that allied ships can move through at full speed. Heavy mines would be impassable without a minesweeper but would slow your ships down(3-5 seconds per sector move speed perhaps)
Astax
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Re: Changes to mines

Post by Astax »

I'm all for mining changes. This does seem like a possibly viable change.

But some groundwork needs to be put into the game before something like this is thought of. I'm talking about ship classifications mainly: by role, class and size. Size could be as simple as formula of say shields+armor+cargoholds and that number can be used to sort out whether or not a ship can safely navigate such a minefield. Smaller fighters getting through alliance minefields would not be a problem, as they cannot take planets. Role is another classification that page has been doing some work on. But there are ships that fit multiple roles, some roles better than others. So do we redesign ships to fit only one role? And that brings us to a class. A ship with certain class can perform different roles, but you probably wouldn't give multiple designs of same class to a single race, like every race has a warbird (well not `skant but kinda). And should there be a neutral ship of every class to give some races options... etc.

With groundwork in place we can then proceed to work on mines in an asymmetric way. Just note this will add layers of complexity to the game that may be confusing to new players and even returning vets.
Page
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Re: Changes to mines

Post by Page »

I really dislike this idea.
Dying to mines is about the least fun event in the game, it is not fun for the player dying to the mines, it is not fun to the person whose mines did the killing, it is not particularly fun laying the mines either..

Mines however can cause some fun events:
- as a trader if you hit a mine on your route you suddenly get an adrenaline rush as you realise you need to flee
- as a hunter, it gives you the chance to get a shot or two off, giving you that adrenaline rush trying to get the kill
- as a raider, it (ideally, assuming some level of resistance) gives you the need to constantly be alert and watching for people trying to catch and kill you whilst weak from mines
- as a defender, it gives you the chance to level the odds in your favour (although you do have to take the risk of trying to actually, you know, defend your territory)

It's just that if they were to start randomly killing you it would just be aggravating and frustrating, nothing enjoyable..
the570z
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Re: Changes to mines

Post by the570z »

This post wasn't entirely finished when I hit post, was kinda distracted shooting at somebody.... lol. Anyway the idea was that mining would be limited to certain areas and blanket mining would be penalized by you possibly killing yourself and or your teammates. The current mines would still be in game but with much shorter lifespans(like 10 mins) and useful either for traders using them to get away from hunters or by hunters looking to slow down running traders.

I would think that minefields should only be allowed in sectors that are not heavily traveled either. It wasnt completely fleshed out either and would require many details to be worked out but basically the idea was to turn mines into area denial weapons for alliance galaxies. Heavy minefields that would be deadly would be deadly to anybody who wasnt in a specialized ship and other types of mines would cause allied players to move slow(navigating mines) and enemies to possibly suffer damage or if unlucky death. The main idea is to take mines from being a labor intensive turn denial weapon and instead make them more autonomous and also something that needs to be used cautiously. I.E. make them a powerful weapon but one that can just as easily kill a careless user as they could somebody else.
JettJackson
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Re: Changes to mines

Post by JettJackson »

Blanket mining is already penalized, the mines cost a lot of money and cost a lot of turns to refresh and refill. Removal of mines in heavily travelled sectors would make defense of a gal completely pointless and would promote no use of planets, there is just way too many flaws/no upside to this idea. If mines really are that troublesome get a FU or have someone get a FU and devote their turns to clearing only, mines will be gone very quickly then.
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Re: Changes to mines

Post by XDemonX »

As much as I hate JJ's face, I agree with him here.

Mines act as defense for your galaxy. Last game is a prime example, the reason we were able to take 3 planets was because we didn't have to clear ANY mines. Mines take a lot of turns to clear and gives the defender a opportunity to plan a defense. Like JJ said, if you went away with mines as a defense for planet galaxy, then no one would land on planets because it would be too easy to bust. All you would have to do is be like "Ok we got 10 online right now lets bust this planet in under 10 minutes before any of them get on".

With the new buff that DCS and FU got with mines only taking 2 turns instead of 3, mines should NOT be a problem. Yes mining is boring, but some people actually enjoy mining (kiNky, Marcus, Izzanods). I would prefer to mine than trade. Trading is even more boring in my eyes.

Yes you have to not be paying attention to die to mines, but like Page said dying to mines is pretty much the worse way to die in this game.
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jouldax
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Re: Changes to mines

Post by jouldax »

The change I'd like to see is making it easier/quicker to lay mines so it doesn't feel like such a tedious process (button that says lay all mines on seeds in sector, maybe?).

Another longer-term option is to double mine damage and reduce max stacks to 25, but that would probably unbalance some ships, make life a lot harder on traders (would have to give trade ships some mine protection), and lower the penalty for blanket mining.
JettJackson
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Re: Changes to mines

Post by JettJackson »

jouldax wrote:The change I'd like to see is making it easier/quicker to lay mines so it doesn't feel like such a tedious process (button that says lay all mines on seeds in sector, maybe?).

Another longer-term option is to double mine damage and reduce max stacks to 25, but that would probably unbalance some ships, make life a lot harder on traders (would have to give trade ships some mine protection), and lower the penalty for blanket mining.
I would be against a quick dump for mining, because this could easily be used for hunting which would substantially make mines while hunting overpowered. Also as much as it is tedious, it allows the opportunity of an opposing hunter to attempt to kill the miner.
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Page
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Re: Changes to mines

Post by Page »

jouldax wrote:The change I'd like to see is making it easier/quicker to lay mines so it doesn't feel like such a tedious process (button that says lay all mines on seeds in sector, maybe?).

Another longer-term option is to double mine damage and reduce max stacks to 25, but that would probably unbalance some ships, make life a lot harder on traders (would have to give trade ships some mine protection), and lower the penalty for blanket mining.
I think making it easy to drop mines would be good, as long as it was gated behind the forces screen (so it requires two clicks but no typing) so that it is useful for mining and not hunting (where using the X to drop one would remain the quickest/easiest option). It could also be a potential to have it available for forces already in-sector, as that would still require two clicks to do from 0 forces (but only one click when there is already a seed).

As for doubling damage/halving total, the only real thing there is that you change the turns required to mine, it's the equivalent of doubling the mines on every ship and halving the price of mines. Personally I'm not a fan of that and would rather make certain ships more turn-efficient for mining, so you can mine more effectively, but you have to make the conscious decision to choose a ship that can only do that.
Also bear in mind that mines already got a lot more affordable this round due to profit being higher.
jouldax
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Re: Changes to mines

Post by jouldax »

Yes, Page, ultimately this is going more towards ship changes than anything else, and forcing people to choose ships based on roles, which is something you and I have agreed is a good thing but will require a boatload of balancing/changes...
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