PSF vs. IST

Purify · Post by **Purify** » Sun May 13, 2007 1:42 pm

This is one aspect of the game that has always bugged me..... why is the undisputed best trade ship in the game also the trade ship with highest defense????.... To me, this seems like an error (unless i'm missing some reasoning)....

Seriously, when trading (ignoring alskant), there is no reason whatsoever to be any ship but the PSF if you can afford it.... just look at all the top traders they switch to that ship as soon as they can afford it... often within a few days of the game starting.... and why shouldn't they?.... they lose nothing and gain everything from switching....

The only weakness of the PSF is its slow speed, which makes travel turns more costly...... I think to fix this 'imbalance' of trade ships we should make the IST one base speed faster, that way the ATM, IST and PSF would all have exactly the same trade potential.... however, the ISTs travel turns would be far less costly... the benefit of less costly travel turns is balanced out by the distinct possibility of dying in one...

Some math: Suppose you had a perfect 4x route that was 6 away from FED with 3000 demand of goods

IST:
12 turns per trade
3000/300 = 10 trades
(10*12)+6+6 = 132 Total turns Used

Current:
132/7 = 18.85 Base Hours
Proposed
132/8 = 16.5 Base Hours

PSF:
12 turns per trade
3000/600 = 5 trades
(5*12)+6+6 = 72 Total Turns Used

72/4 = 18 Base Hours

As you can see in this scenario, currently... even though you're traveling 12 total turns to and from your route you can see with the current speeds a PSF still uses less hours of turns than an IST..... If we increase the IST's speed we can see that these travel turns are far more costly to the PSF.... This is not a drastic change I'm proposing, just a simple one that I believe will correct this long ignored imbalance.

Ardbeg · Post by **Ardbeg** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:14 pm

You are underestimating the drawbacks of the PSF - don't forget that it is much more limited in route choice, being confined to routes relatively close to fed, which are often drained. Flying your psf out to the juicy 4x and finding it drained has a huge cost.

Increasing the speed of the IST would also require a huge price jump, taking it out of the equation as an early upgrade.

Pick the right ship for the right job - the IST is good for jumping out to obscure and safe routes, the psf is good for trading the hardcore and hunted racial routes.

Post by **Trigek** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:51 pm

The main point is that the best trader has the best defenses. The fact that it is slow is also an advantage in that it spends less time trading, and in danger, than other ships.

Instead of playing with the IST you could switch the defenses of the PSF and the PF so that PSF is better at trading but the PF has the better defenses.

The problem with trying to balance the PSF with other trade ships is that you have to keep in mind the balance with hunters. Maybe we want the best trade ship to have the best defenses because we want to make it more difficult for hunters.

Purify · Post by **Purify** » Sun May 13, 2007 3:58 pm

Ardbeg wrote:You are underestimating the drawbacks of the PSF - don't forget that it is much more limited in route choice, being confined to routes relatively close to fed, which are often drained. Flying your psf out to the juicy 4x and finding it drained has a huge cost.

I believe you are overestimating the drawbacks of the PSF... for example if you were to hit up a 'juicy 4x' route that was 7 away from FED and found there was only 1800 demand:

IST
12 turns per trade
1800/300 = 6 trades
(6*12)+7+7= 86 Total Turns Used

86/7 = 12.3 Base Hours

PSF
12 turns per trade
1800/600 = 3 trades
(3*12)+7+7= 50 Total Turns Used

50/4 = 12.5 Base Hours

In this example you have a route that's 7 away from fed (most are closer).... and is half full...... the IST uses a mere 12 minutes of turns less than the PSF .... yet sacrafices more time in danger + less defense to do so..... I can really not see if you are trading a racial galaxy where the IST would be better to use....

Furthermore, it has become standard to have a FED in a neutral galaxy, thus 'jumping out to obscure safe routes' has become far less common.... In almost every trading scenario I can think of the PSF is the no brainer choice...

Also, would taking the IST out of the 'early trader' equation really be a bad thing???.... So we wait a few more days to get into ISTs and PSFs... big deal??

Freon22 · Post by **Freon22** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:04 pm

I know where this is going, you can't kill the psf easy enough. So you want to weaken it so hunters will get more kills.

How about weaking the ITAC?

Purify · Post by **Purify** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:10 pm

Freon22 wrote:I know where this is going, you can't kill the psf easy enough. So you want to weaken it so hunters will get more kills.

This is not the case at all.... I never suggested weakening the PSF.... I just want the choice between using the IST and the PSF a little harder to make... I thought having choice was good???.... Right now its a no-brainer which ship you should use to trade in.

Freon22 · Post by **Freon22** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:12 pm

The same argument can be used on the ITAC.

Edit: Ok I see you are wanting to incease the speed of the IST. But would it be better to cap the turns then to increase the turn rate of a ship.

Purify · Post by **Purify** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:22 pm

Freon22 wrote:The same argument can be used on the ITAC.

This isn't a thread about the ITAC.... its about Trade ships... Do you actually have an argument why the IST speed shouldn't increase??? or... do you just like to derail threads?

Freon22 · Post by **Freon22** » Sun May 13, 2007 4:43 pm

You posted at the sametime that I edited my post.
So I will ask again would it not be better all the way around for all the ships. If the turns were caped at 400 or 500 turns regardest of game speed? I know that unless your trade route is close by, at a game speed of 1 the IST is the better choice. Also your example show only the turned used on the route. Not the turns used to get to and back from the route.

Purify · Post by **Purify** » Sun May 13, 2007 5:19 pm

Freon22 wrote:You posted at the sametime that I edited my post.
So I will ask again would it not be better all the way around for all the ships. If the turns were caped at 400 or 500 turns regardest of game speed? I know that unless your trade route is close by, at a game speed of 1 the IST is the better choice. Also your example show only the turned used on the route. Not the turns used to get to and back from the route.

You see in my examples where i have the +7+7... and in the original where i have the +6+6..... those are the turns used to get to and from the route.... Also, you are incorrect in your assumption that in a game speed of 1 the IST is the better choice..... When the game speed is changed it speeds up everything the same and thus has no bearing on the actual mathematics of the game.... (which is the intention).....

Furthermore, no i do not believe capping turns would be a better solution.... capping turns would change many other aspects of the game that would carefully have to be looked at.... I just want there to be more of a choice between the IST and PSF..... and i believe raising the turn rate of the IST by 1 is the easiest / best way to get that choice...